Transcript: Let's Talk About Youth Engagement

Music: Change has to come by Mo’ Ju

Sherryl Reddy: Hello, hello, everyone. Thank you for joining today's open learning session on youth engagement in the social impact space. My name is Sherryl Reddy from Social Enterprise Australia and it's my pleasure to introduce this webinar, which is convened by Nathaniel Diong from Future Minds Network, in collaboration with a bunch of wonderful changemakers: Sarah Mayo, Sam Champion and Brendon Eglinton. They're all from a Community of Practice that they collectively brought to life over the past 12 months.

That learning community and this open learning webinar are part of the Social Enterprise Development Initiative, which was funded by the Australian Government Department of Social Services. And the intention with these kinds of learning communities is to create space for people across the social enterprise community to share knowledge and experience and to strengthen connection and collaboration. So we're really excited to learn from your experiences as peer experts, peer learners and peer leaders.

So thank you in advance, Nathaniel, Sam, Brendon and Sarah, for your time and care and for sharing your insights with us today.

Before I hand over to this wonderful crew, I'd like to acknowledge the Traditional Custodians of the unceded lands from which we're all joining today. I'm thankful to live as a guest on the lands of the Wadi Wadi people of the Dharawal language group, and I recognise their continuing connection to these waters, skies and lands. I pay my respects to Elders past and present, who've cared for Country and community for thousands of years, and also to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people joining us today or viewing this recording later. I appreciate that your presence here holds over 65,000 years of systems thinking and relational care for people, places and planet.

A few things to note about today's session. It is being recorded and the recording will be made available on Understorey in the coming weeks. We've scheduled this webinar for 75 minutes to allow time for questions, so please feel free to pop your questions into the chat box. We also welcome your comments and your reflections in the chat box so we can all learn from each other, and we also love your emoji reactions when things move you. So please feel free to use the emojis and share some love for these wonderful speakers.

And with that, over to you, Nathaniel, to kick off this conversation.

Nathaniel Diong: Thanks, Sherryl, for the wonderful intro and the Acknowledgement of Country as well.

Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Nathaniel. I'm the CEO of Future Minds Network and if we haven't had the pleasure of meeting yet, a little bit about what we do. Over the past decade, we've equipped over 13,000 young people with the skills, mindsets and real world experience to thrive in a changing world of work. So we deliver tech and entrepreneurship programs where young people learn by doing, they tackle real challenges, they pitch real businesses and build real ideas.

Now, as we get started, as Sherryl has mentioned, you'll notice the chat in the bottom right hand corner of your screen, so I'd love for you to use that throughout. We'll be taking questions at the very end, so please drop them in as they come up.

But first, as a quick one to warm us up, what organisations are you dialling in from? And who are the young people you work with? Please drop your answer in the chat. I'd love to read these after.

I know you're here to listen to a star lineup of Australia's leading youth engagement practitioners, but before I introduce our awesome speakers on the screen, I just want to take you through the five year journey that has brought us to this conversation.

So, over five years ago, we started with this question and we became fascinated with it: "How do we actually bring the youth sector together in a way that creates meaningful change?" That curiosity led us to a lot of conversations, but ultimately it led us to start mapping all of the 120 youth led organisations across Australia at that time. And it allowed us to understand the landscape, find the connections and identify some of the gaps that we had between our organisations.

And five years later, after a lot of that digging and a lot of that work, we took it even further. We brought that work into the SEDI (Social Enterprise Development Initiative) learning community. We wanted to go deeper, specifically into how organisations and social enterprises engage young people, and what would it actually take to strengthen that practice across the board.

Our initial instinct was that we needed more research on what young people themselves thought. But when we sat with that, we realised we actually didn't know where to start. So we went back to basics. We interviewed 10 social enterprises, a mix of youth led and youth supporting organisations, to understand what they believed the biggest challenges were.

And what emerged surprised us. Across every conversation, the same six stages of youth engagement kept surfacing. These were areas where organisations consistently needed support, from first contact in awareness all the way through to long term retention.

We also had to be a little bit honest about who we were. We weren't academics and our real strength was actually learning from what the best organisations in the sector were already doing and distilling it down. So everything you're going to hear today, in this little time that we have together, is the culmination of well over 100 collective years of practice from some of the most effective youth organisations in the country.

That groundwork led us here. Over the past 12 months, we've led a Community of Practice bringing together social enterprises focused on meaningfully engaging young people across that full cycle, from attraction all the way to retention. The way that we did it was each month we invited an organisation that was genuinely an expert in one aspect of engagement to share their strategies. We then opened breakout spaces for participants to go deeper, testing some ideas, sharing challenges, building on the approaches.

And that ongoing knowledge turned into the first draft of our toolkit. We brought our whole community together to design the toolkit ourselves and structured it into three layers:

• The guiding insights, the principles and wisdom about how young people want to be engaged
• The strategies, the concrete actions that organisations have actually taken
• A self assessment checklist so that organisations could reflect on where they are and where they can grow

We iterated through this process over 11 times and that's the result of this toolkit that we're launching today.

Here's a small sample of one of the engagement stages, awareness, the very start. You can see that we go through exactly what awareness is, walk through some of these five guiding insights that we've learned from incredible people like Sarah, Sam and Brendon, and then talk through some of the strategies they've actually used within their own organisations. And we end with case studies around the organisations themselves.

So now you have some of that context. I want you to hear directly from the people who've shaped that toolkit. Today's speakers are all members of this community that we've shared together. We're really lucky to have them with us today. Their experiences aren't just the incredible backgrounds they have, but they also bring incredible strategies, challenges and insights which they've woven through the toolkit itself. So what you're about to hear is the thinking behind each of these pages.

So without further ado, I want to start chucking over to our incredible speakers. And because I can't do you justice in introducing you, I'm going to let you introduce yourselves.

I'm going to chuck to you, Sam, first. What organisation are you coming from and who are the young people that you work with?

Sam Champion: Thanks, Nathaniel. Hey folks, good to meet you all. I'm Sam, I go by he and him pronouns, and I'm Participation and Development Manager at YACVic, the Youth Affairs Council Victoria. Our organisation is the peak body for young people and the youth sector in Victoria. We're based in Melbourne, but we have offices and a presence outside of Melbourne in regional and rural areas as well.

The young people that we work with are 12 to 25 year olds living, working, studying here in Victoria. And our work is really varied. Our core function is around advocacy and getting better policy outcomes for young people and people that work with young people. But that is pretty diverse and we stretch that into lots of different ways, through things like consultation, resource development, practice development, supporting the sector, creating youth led opportunities within YACVic (Youth Affairs Council Victoria) and employment opportunities for young people as well, specifically within my team where we focus on social enterprise.

So over the last few years we've set up a social enterprise team within YACVic (Youth Affairs Council Victoria) to monetise, really, the expertise that we have and the access to young people as leaders, and those who can hold space for other young people. So going out into youth groups, going out into youth councils, youth advisory groups and leading conversations around leadership, youth led meetings, safety and power and rights.

Yeah, super varied and it's a real privilege to be here. We've had such a great time as part of the network and the conversation today is going to be awesome.

Nathaniel Diong: Thanks, Sam. I'll throw to you, Sarah.

Sarah Mayo: Hi everyone, thanks for having us and welcome. I am Sarah Mayo. I am the Head of People and Culture at the Youth Impact Foundation. We have an office in Sydney, one in Melbourne and one in Auckland and Christchurch as well.

We predominantly work with adolescents, from year four all the way to young adulthood, so up to 25, through a number of different delivery modes. We have school programs, we have camps and events, we also have online spaces, digital learnings, and it's all focused around youth mental health. So leadership, wellbeing and building resilience and self awareness, all in the preventative side of mental health before things reach crisis.

So if you think of the Youth Impact Foundation as a big umbrella, we have an amazing ecosystem of brands that sit underneath that organisation, that all help to deliver different areas and different programs, all based on youth mental health. We span all across Australia and New Zealand as well, and we have a big focus on trying to reach more regional and rural areas.

Our org is unique in the sense that a lot of our employees are participants first. So that's how we engage them and keep them engaged long term. And I'll speak more to that as we go on.

Nathaniel Diong: Awesome, thanks Sarah. I'll throw it to you, Brendon, for your intro.

Brendon Eglinton: Terrific, thanks Nathaniel. Brendon Eglinton, he/him. I am the Learning and Development Manager here at Australian Spatial Analytics, a social enterprise.

Our main focus is for young neurodivergent adults, roughly early 20s up to mid-30s, who as yet have not been seen or heard properly in the right environment. And the other side of our business is in the geospatial and digital engineering areas. For those who don't know what that is, it's basically Google Maps on steroids and all the fantastic things that go with that. In regards to that particular industry, we work with corporate, we work with government, work with infrastructure, the roads, the streetlights, the buildings, airports, working with clients on how they put data together including three dimensional and multi dimensional information systems.

That's an industry that usually requires analysts who have degrees or masters or the likes as well. But our own staff come in from anywhere. They may have had industry experience, they may have had university experience, and that's fantastic. But a lot actually come without even understanding what geospatial is. And what we do that's beautiful is we learn on the job, we learn by experience, we learn by doing those projects and we do them really well. So clients love how these people work on their projects. Can we have them? And that's where the end of that beautiful journey is for a lot of our staff: they do transition into these particular companies or across the industry with those experiences.

In more traditional settings, they aren't seen, they aren't heard, they aren't recognised for what their true values are. And that's the journey that we're there about.

Through that we can share more things, like our training or presentations about neurodiversity as a whole, understanding how neuro inclusion actually works well for everybody, and how other industries can do what we're trying to do by welcoming, not just welcoming but embracing and using the right way, a neurodivergent person and neurodivergent teams, to the benefit of their own industry as well as the individuals that join them.

Nathaniel Diong: Thanks, Brendon. That's such a great segue into the next question I want to ask you.

So the way I'm going to do this, Brendon, Sam and Sarah, you all have such amazing knowledge, so I'm going to do a bit of a lightning talk on each stage that we've covered. Brendon, we're going to chat a little bit about recruitment. Sarah, we're going to jump into onboarding. And then Sam, we're going to talk about engagement.

So, Brendon, while I still have you here on the mic with me, perhaps the first question: imagine we know absolutely nothing about recruitment and the way that you do recruitment at ASA (Australian Spatial Analytics). Can you walk us through how you would actually recruit a young person and what that process looks like from start to finish?

Brendon Eglinton: Okay. Thanks for the question.

The way that we recruit is probably completely backwards compared to other recruitment areas, in a good way. Like I said before, many in the industry don't even know geospatial or understand what's behind it. Those that do are actually reaching out to us and saying, oh, wouldn't it be great to apply for you guys? And we say, go for it.

At any given time there aren't major drives in regards to recruitment. There are actually waitlists for those who are interested, whether that be individuals who love the industry, all the way through to employment providers, or even mums and dads who say, oh, I reckon my kid will actually be great in this industry or will really benefit from that first chance.

So with that, however we get recruitment started, we're recognising not particularly the skills or the experiences they've had before, but what the aptitude may be, the interest may be in regards to what we do. And flowing along with that, the way that we recognise those ones and have opportunities to recruit into our business: the interview process. We change that, and not because we feel like changing it, it's because it makes sense.

When a person gets to an interview stage, we hand out the interview questions beforehand. Again, not to cheat or anything, but it just makes sense to say: you are going to go through this interview, here are the questions. Do your research, find out what you can actually bring to the table in regards to honest, truthful answers, and that's what we have a discussion on. We don't want you to come into an interview with no idea what we're going to ask, expected to perform on the spot and come up with an answer in that particular moment. It's always going to be a nerve wracking experience with those traditional ways of doing interviews. For our case it's like: hi, let's find out if there's a connection and then build on that as well.

And along with that, we have programs in place, which we get funding for through applications, where we can even have a try before you buy situation, where a person can ask themselves: is this something I'm really interested in? And because we're 80% neurodivergent, which is pretty cool for a workforce, it's also an opportunity for them to give it a crack, try it and experience it, and then see if there's something in it for them. And we also see something in it for us with them as well.

So it's different, but it feels like it makes sense.

Nathaniel Diong: Awesome, thanks Brendon. And I love how you touched on the neuro affirming practices and what we believe is normal versus what different applicants have to go through if they're coming from different backgrounds.

I remember the first time that I heard you talk about how you give your interview questions to your applicants. I was just like, what? But it's so common sense. As part of recruitment you're not actually trying to judge this individual as a young person, but by giving them the questions you can see them show up as their true selves rather than someone who is trying to put on a show.

And I really enjoy hearing about how you flip the conversation when it comes to interviews, all the way to, you know, you talked in previous conversations about how you have lived experience panels of young people.

Brendon Eglinton: Yeah, we have analysts actually jump in on the interview panel as well, and get a chance to, from their case, experience what an interview is about. But also for those people being interviewed, they get some awesome questions from those analysts. So it's a good experience, and it's also a taste of what our environment is like. It's all honest, it's all truthful. There's no performance required, none of that. There's no big surprises where a person looks good in the interview but doesn't actually perform well in the real world afterwards.

Again, common sense. Sorry.

Nathaniel Diong: Love it, Brendon. I think that's a great segue into Sarah's component.

Sarah, you've obviously been onboarding a whole bunch of new staff and participants into your organisation recently. Same question as Brendon. Let's say we know nothing about onboarding in the Youth Impact Foundation. Please walk us through what that process looks like in practice for your organisation.

Sarah Mayo: Yeah, so our onboarding pathway isn't really a single moment. It's more of a continuous relationship.

Often a lot of the time our team members, we've met years prior and they've been participants in our school programs or camps or events, and they've seen firsthand the impact that our programs have had on them. So straight away they already understand our values, they understand our culture, and the impact that we're trying to achieve. So it's not so much of an operational induction or onboarding, it's more that we focus it around the cultural intention. They're not just stepping up into a role, they're stepping into an organisation that they already have experience with.

This isn't the case for everyone, but it is a unique pathway that we do have. So what that could look like: we have participants in a program, they stay in touch with us once they are out of school or prior to school. There are also opportunities for youth voice and leadership, so we've got our youth advisory boards for some of our organisations. We have mentoring opportunities and volunteering opportunities that they can get involved in to stay in touch with us. And then once they've come out of high school and graduated, a role becomes available and they apply for that role.

We really like to focus on it being, as I said before, very culture based. Like Brendon was saying earlier, we don't necessarily focus on the university degrees or the paper resume. We like to focus on the person and what they have to offer. So we give everyone a fair go. We're very values-led and when they come on board we want to make them feel welcome, because that really helps the young person to thrive in our space.

And so we do that through a combination of things, but we really intentionally build in these cultural rhythms that we have within our organisation from the get go. We have monthly team days where everyone in the organisation dials in no matter where they are, or can come in in person. And we do wins and shoutouts, we have values nominations, we have awards. We always like to be really transparent across our organisation so that everyone feels equal, and I think that helps people to feel valued and supported.

Throughout the process as well, we do wider team check-ins, so our onboarding doesn't necessarily look like just you having a lot of one on one time with the hiring manager. It's about having those wider team opportunities with everyone as well, so they really feel like they're part of this culture. That relationships first value that we embed straight away, we really, really do place so much importance on. And I think that's why when people come and work for us, they don't want to leave, because they feel like they're already part of this unique ecosystem.

And I think for young people, especially when they're entering the workforce for the first time, onboarding is often where you see confidence being built or it can also be lost. So that's why we really prioritise clarity, warmth and psychological safety from the get go.

It's kind of case by case, but that's an overview of the pathway and some of the rhythms and things that we embed early on in the onboarding process to make everyone feel seen and welcome and that they're really part of something that's bigger than themselves.

Nathaniel Diong: Thanks, Sarah. And I think it's really unique how you have that sort of pathway from participant to employee essentially. There's something so unique about that, that the participants who've experienced your program have loved it so much that they want to continue working with you. I think there's something to be said there.

And it sounds like what you're describing are all these different layers of support which work together. You have your scheduled check-ins, but those are only as good as the team days and the culture that you're able to build. Layer by layer you're sort of building these ladders where the onboarding doesn't feel like it's a checklist for that young person, but it actually feels like an embedding into the culture of your organisation.

Sarah Mayo: Yeah, exactly. And I think it's also really important to note that it can look a little bit different depending on who comes on board too. We're always learning and that's the other thing that we like to do when we onboard someone new or a young person. We always get that feedback from them as well so that we can always be doing better and getting more people on board and feeling comfortable with that process.

Nathaniel Diong: Yeah, thanks so much, Sarah.

Sam, lucky last. No pressure. But you have a really interesting model at YACVic (Youth Affairs Council Victoria) as well. Same question for you, and I guess the focus on engagement here. Walk us through what it looks like to engage a young person at YACVic (Youth Affairs Council Victoria), from start to finish.

Sam Champion: Yeah, love that.

Firstly, I wanted to just reiterate what's been said already. Thinking back to front was something that really stood out from what Brendon said. Thinking about where you're trying to get to and working back from there is something that I really related to in the way that we work with young people, not necessarily following a one size fits all kind of approach.

And what Sarah was talking about with relationships first is absolutely a mantra of mine. I believe it's the absolute key to really everything that we do in our work. We work in people focused industries and if we're not building those relationships then it's hard to know what are we prioritising. If we're values based organisations, then relationships have got to come first. And youth engagement absolutely benefits from that relationships first model. Because if you're treating people not only how you want to be treated but how they want to be treated, then you can develop processes around that that respond to their individual needs, whether that's based on culture, whether that's based on identity, whether that's based on disability, whether that's based on location. Those are all things that we need to think about in relation to that specific young person, not just thinking about overall approaches and strategies.

Sorry, I dropped straight into a rabbit hole there.

Taking a step back, my brain goes in two different ways around engagement. We have sort of two models and they massively overlap. We have young people who are engaged in our youth participation opportunities. They might have seen an advert and completed an EOI form to become part of a consultation, which might be one off, or part of a co-design process which might be three to five plus workshops over a period of time, or to join something like a youth advisory group or a youth council. And they may be projects that we're running internally at YACVic (Youth Affairs Council Victoria), or things that we're supporting other organisations to do through our social enterprise work.

And then we have our youth engagement through our young peer facilitator model, whereby we're training, employing and supporting young people to deliver that work directly with young people. So they're designing and facilitating those consultations, or designing and facilitating training sessions with young people in youth advisory groups or youth councils.

And they overlap massively in the sense that most of it's around principles. For us, we think about those relationships, we think particularly around respect, respecting diversity, respecting the individual need of that young person, respecting their human right to be involved, to have a say, to be taken seriously on issues that impact them. Particularly thinking about meaningful opportunities, making sure that that young person can put a finger on what they've contributed and feel proud about that as well. Ideally in a way that actually impacts change, but sometimes that's a little bit outside of our control. The bit that we can control is the relationship, and that's a huge part of what we can foster and lead and role model and develop over time.

And particularly in our casual staff model, the young peer facilitators that we employ, that support network is absolutely key. Similar a little bit to the Youth Impact Foundation, we have sort of different levels whereby we set up one to one supervision, but we also support peer supervision. So creating a space for them as a group to get together and talk about what's important to them, without an agenda that's top down, actually giving them the space to lead that themselves. They take it in turns, they can do it creatively. They play games, they talk about stuff outside of work, share a little bit about who they are, and they develop incredible relationships. Some of the enduring relationships that they've built are just, yeah, one of the things I'm most proud of from the work that we've done, honestly.

And probably remuneration is another really key thing as well. I think most people are pretty clued into that these days but it can be a little bit of a tricky one to initiate in an organisation. You might have a few challenging conversations with your HR team or with your finance team, but actually paying young people to be part of projects as volunteers is absolutely part and parcel of good youth engagement and youth participation practice. The ATO has a system whereby you can pay people an honorarium payment so they don't have to have an ABN (Australian Business Number), they don't have to be employees. And working towards an employee structure is great for that long term sustainability and ongoing deeper relationships, but getting more opportunities out to more young people, you're probably going to need to do that through more of a volunteer type arrangement.

Yeah, those are the main things that jump to mind.

Nathaniel Diong: Thanks, Sam. And it's been incredible to see where the peer facilitator program has gone. What I'm hearing from what you're saying is there are a couple of components here. There's that ability to go through different roles and rotate through different things, which is a key way to engage young people, giving them those options of where they can engage. But beyond that, as you said, the remuneration. One of the biggest lessons we had from the community was not all remuneration looks the same, and different compensation matches to different times. So for some young people, employment is the best thing for them. For others, it's honorarium. For others, it's actually just the space to connect and to have that peer support group that is led by peers so that they feel heard by other young people.

Super awesome model and thanks for sharing that with us.

Sam Champion: Not at all. Can I just add one other thing that's just occurred to me? Whilst we're talking like we've all got it sorted, I'm pretty confident that Brendon and Sarah have got some big challenges in their work that they're working through at the moment. And we're constantly iterating and reviewing and updating processes.

In the last few weeks, it occurred to us that we didn't have a really clear, transparent process for facilitators to step back from their work. Inevitably, young people go through a lot of transition, whether that's work, whether that's study, whether that's family, whether that's mental health. They're all different things that young people will need to prioritise at different times. And we've really tried to improve how we have that conversation with young people, and to create a model whereby they can flag when they're recognising that they need to step back from the work and prioritise other things in their life.

And that struck me as almost a shadow side of engagement. Engagement isn't always about positive this and positive that. It's about recognising that a lot of us are holding an awful lot in our lives, particularly at the moment I think, in the global political landscape and local landscape as well.

And recognising that and being on that journey with young people. Sometimes I've had pushback from people where they might say: but isn't that kind of setting them up for failure in organisations outside of yours? Aren't you setting them up for expectations that others can't uphold?

And I massively challenge that. I want to be part of an organisation and a team that creates an environment that I want to be part of, and that enables young people to see what can be done and what they can take into other organisations and hold other organisations and companies to higher standards.

Nathaniel Diong: Great, thanks. Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox.

You've just given me the perfect segue because the next question was really, what's the one thing you wish you'd known earlier about how you engage young people? And I think you've answered that perfectly.

To continue that train of thought, I'll pass it to Brendon to talk to that point a little bit more. What's one thing you wish you'd known earlier about recruiting young people, Brendon?

Brendon Eglinton: I think I'll speak more in a general format here, especially for our neuroinclusive practices that we're trying to embed. Most of the mistakes that I've made, but even our own executive level have made, have been those neurotypical or neuronormative or traditional assumptions. The biggest thing that I've actually learned from that is: maybe ask rather than assume you're in the right. Try not to fix things. Actually listen.

Because when it comes to the recruitment side of things, the best way to find the best recruitment practice for young neurodivergent audiences is to ask them: what works for you? How do we attract you? How do we give you your best start? How do you be part of that best start?

And it's not rocket science. We're probably just trying to make too much of it. I know with what Sam said beforehand, yeah, we're learning a lot about our mistakes and falling over ourselves. Yeah, we are. But if we have the right purpose, that makes a hell of a difference to how we actually work through those mistakes and see things as they really are.

Nathaniel Diong: Thanks, Brendon. And Sarah, round us out here. What's one thing you wish you'd known earlier about the way that you onboard young people?

Sarah Mayo: I think how much young people need reassurance over instruction. They come to us with these incredible capabilities, but really lacking confidence. They feel that imposter syndrome come in. What am I doing here? Do I belong?

So that's something I wish I knew earlier. And we are working on that now, through regular check-ins and feedback loops, anonymous surveys where we focus them on this idea of mattering. Do I bring value to my workplace, and does my workplace value me? By having those regular check-ins and feedback loops you can gain some really great insight and keep your finger on the pulse of what the culture is like in your organisation and throughout the onboarding process too. Just making sure that everyone feels as though they belong.

Nathaniel Diong: I love that, Sarah.

As we come to a close on some of our panel questions, I just want to invite anyone who's still online to add some of your questions to the chat. I know we had some people who submitted questions earlier, so I think we have a list of something like 20 or 30 questions. So we can run through those, but please do add them to the chat.

As we start to wrap up our reflections with Sarah, Sam and Brendon, I wanted to start to close around: what does success look like? If you were to talk about what effective recruitment or onboarding or engagement looked like, and you had infinite money to create that, what is that gold star that you're working towards? And what are the things that we as a sector can start to think about when it comes to really good recruitment or really good onboarding or really good engagement?

I want to throw that hardest question to Brendon first.

Brendon Eglinton: Okay, all right.

I don't think it falls all on us. For our case, as our own business, as our own social enterprise, we need partners in this. We need the mums and dads on board, connecting individuals and seeing us for who we are and what's possible. We need employment providers, disability employment providers in particular, to get us and what we're trying to achieve and to be part of that process. And more than anything, we need corporate, the ones at the end of that journey, to learn from those experiences and to welcome those opportunities as well.

I'm not saying we're perfect, but there are so many simple things, those status quos, those traditional ways of approaching things, that many of our young neurodivergent adults aren't getting through. They aren't getting the opportunities because they're not seen, they're not heard for who they truly are and the value they do provide, not just to us but to the greater community as well.

So having the greater community be part of that recruitment process, recognising that recruitment process and helping those individuals see it for what it is and what they can actually add value to.

Community recruitment. I love that. That needs to go in the toolkit.

Nathaniel Diong: Amazing, mate. That's a big ask. Sarah, over to you.

Sarah Mayo: It's a tricky one, isn't it?

I think for us it's as simple as a young person choosing to stay. So that's what I believe success looks like in our onboarding process. They really have the heart and the buy-in from the start, but then they're also not let down once they are welcomed into the organisation, and they continue to maintain that feeling of belonging.

And then I think as well, when we look at the work that we do with young people in our programs, that's what we're trying to do on the ground. We're trying to build up the confidence, the self awareness, the resilience skills with these young people in our programs. But in my role in Head of People and Culture and HR, I think the ethos is the same. We want to be building those skills within the organisation as well so that all of our employees can really just thrive and do their best work, so that we can then have the most impact on the ground in our programs.

Nathaniel Diong: That also needs to be a quote somewhere, Sarah. I'm going to put that on my wall. That's the end goal.

Sam, round us out before I ask the last question to all of you.

Sam Champion: Yeah. I actually found this one quite challenging to think through. It's surprising, isn't it, because we talk a lot about goals and what's next on the agenda and the things we're working on. But actually identifying success is really important. It's kind of made me realise that I'm probably not thinking about it enough, because we're probably doing a lot of it and not maybe celebrating it as well as we could.

But for me it's similar to what Sarah was saying around young people wanting to be part of the organisation. For us it's also been about recognising the balance there, in that it is a transitory role. Young people are likely to be young peer facilitators in our team for maybe two years at a certain time in their life. And it's taken us a little while to embrace that.

A couple of years ago I was quite frustrated at the kind of turnover of staff, and then it suddenly occurred to me that I was fighting something that was inevitable and I needed to actually embrace it and understand that that is perhaps even part of the strength of the model.

So that's where we've been for the last little while, working out how many young people we're likely to lose through the year because they go off and do usually very incredible and inspiring things outside of our work, and how many we need to bring into the organisation to keep the right number ticking over, so that there's enough young people to do the work, there's not too many so that they haven't got enough work, and we've got enough so that we can dial up a little bit if we've got a busy period.

That's sort of where we're at in terms of what success looks like. I'm not sure we're 100% there, but some of the time I feel like we are getting there.

Nathaniel Diong: That's awesome.

Look, I want to end with a closing reflection. I think part of the reason we created this community was, and we've talked about this quite a bit in our own circles, it often feels like the sector has so many amazing organisations but we're competing for limited funding, for limited resources, spots. And sometimes it can be hard to reach out for help because we are all amazing organisations, and it might feel difficult to reach out when we actually need support from each other and create that sense of community that you're talking to, Brendon.

I just want to reflect on how being part of this community has shaped the way that you work, and what would you say to other people who are trying to find their community right now in the sector?

I might chuck to Sarah first for this one.

Sarah Mayo: I think this Communities of Practice that's been going for the last 12 months or so has really fundamentally changed how I look at my work. Like you mentioned, Nathaniel, we're all youth focused, we're all trying to do the same thing. So why not meet and talk about what's working, what's not working? How can we make connections that ultimately help us achieve our ultimate goal of making more impact, engaging more young people, creating these safe spaces?

I think the community in itself has been just an incredible way to bounce off ideas and keep on championing the great work that we're all doing.

And just from multiple conversations that we've all had, I've taken things from what you've been saying, Brendon, including one thing in particular that I've tried to implement into our induction, which is having the interview questions first. Because we are very culture based, we want to know the person. We don't want you to tick a box. When you're feeling stressed, we want to know how you would handle that feeling, as comfortable and confident as you possibly can. So that's been such a highlight for us.

And, what would I say to others looking for their community? Don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to reach out to someone when you see that they're doing good work. It's about opening that channel of communication. Because ultimately we're all trying to do the same thing. I think anyone who works in these positions, we're good people, we're all trying to do the best that we can.

So don't be afraid to reach out to someone. Don't be afraid to start your own Communities of Practice or lunch and learns, or those small moments of connection that actually do make quite a big impact.

Nathaniel Diong: Awesome, thanks Sarah. Over to you, Brendon, same question.

Brendon Eglinton: Oh man. There's just nothing left to say after Sarah.

I think the biggest thing I've got from that sense of community is that sharing is just so amazing. I've come from corporate, until I joined ASA. And this idea of sharing amongst corporate was: no, you can't do that, that's competition, or that's going to cost money, or that does not work. Because I think as much as corporate sees social enterprise so differently, it's all for the wrong reasons.

Our most valuable commodity is the fact that we can share and embrace sharing. We've got no money, we need to get grants to be able to do that. We actually get value from what we share.

And I think the biggest thing I've got, especially for that next part of your question, for those who are considering being part of or joining or setting up a community: we all come from different industries, just us here on the panel. There is a lot that we can share from different perspectives, different mindsets, or similar experiences and similar troubles that someone else has tried in a different way. So just that exposure to something different is what makes us unique, what makes any community out there. It does not have to be the same industry, it does not have to be the same setup, it doesn't have to be the same demographic. There is value in other perspectives, and something small can make a big difference to some other area.

So that's probably my little wind up.

Nathaniel Diong: Thanks, Brendon, and lucky last, Sam, over to you.

Sam Champion: Yeah, I've got heaps from it.

I'm a member of quite a lot of different networks and things as part of my role. It's sort of a privilege of being in a peak body: you're meant to be kind of everywhere and seen everywhere and support people to connect. So I'm very passionate about being an active member of networks and supporting the development of networks. I'm on a number of admin teams and I lead my own Community of Practice called the Youth Participation Practice Network as well, which is focused on the youth sector, not necessarily social enterprise, much more focused on community orgs and councils. But I'm also part of a Work Integrated Social Enterprise Community of Practice.

So what this did so nicely was bring those two together. It's incredible how useful getting into the detail of the specifics can be and thinking about, as Brendon said, the differences that we all have in our work environments. But hearing those can trigger something at any moment in your own work and help you to reflect as well.

And then in terms of advice for others: yeah, I agree with Sarah. Don't be afraid to set up your own little brains trust or your own little trusted advisors or come up with a funky name for it.

As I say, I run the Youth Participation Practice Network, and a group of people in that network felt like they weren't getting necessarily enough from the regular meetings we were having. So they set up an additional group to go a little bit deeper into conversations around advanced participation practice. And I felt a bit confronted at first. I was kind of like, oh my gosh, well, isn't this the group that I lead? Aren't they getting enough from it?

And I suddenly thought: no, this is an incredible compliment. They've found each other through the network, they've invited me in, but they also want to create a space to go deeper. And they just went ahead and did that. They just booked a place. They went to a cafe and caught up and talked about the work that was relevant to them, and gradually started to create a little bit of structure. A really simple example: they've essentially set up their own little mini Community of Practice.

And I would definitely recommend doing that where you can, finding those who are geographically close to you or sector-wise close to you in relation to the work that you're doing. Think about what might be most useful to you and find those people. The people I've reached out to have always been so gracious. Anybody that you ask, we are blessed to be in a sector where people do care and they want to, they do care about those relationships. So asking for tips and advice, or: I know you're working on this project, can you just tell me how it's been? People love talking about that. They literally love it. And if you can learn from it and then pay it back to them or to someone else later, it's like a beautiful little ecosystem.

Love that. So don't be afraid. Create your own mini Communities of Practice. Go spread those little ecosystems everywhere.

Nathaniel Diong: Look, I just want to thank all three of you for the amazing insights that you've shared with us over the past hour or so. There's so much to learn here and if you enjoyed this, just know that there are even more gold nuggets in our toolkit that Sam, Sarah and Brendon have shared, that go more in depth of the exact strategies that they use in their organisations. So please do check it out. If you're interested, feel free to leave your name or email in the comments and I can send that straight to you after this call.

I'm noticing that there are a few questions now in the chat, so first of all I'd like to give a big round of applause or emoji to Sam, Brendon and Sarah. Thank you for your time. And if you're able to stick around, we have some Q and A in the chat so I might just start reading some of that now.

All right, so what do we have here.

We have a question from Joy: in your experiences, what strategies have you used to get people to get off the couch? Freebies, viral content, gift cards, etc? And how can we encourage people to engage and become champions of the movement?

I'll leave it open to the floor for anyone who wants to jump in.

Sam Champion: I'm happy to jump in.

For me, things like the freebies, the viral content, gift cards etc, are more the things that you might use to keep people there once they're there. But actually engaging people in the concept of your idea is more about the values based piece, we continually find. Young people are passionate about issues, they're passionate about global issues, they're passionate about climate issues, passionate about social justice, they're passionate about rights. Giving young people a sense of why this project is important, the meaning of it, and then making clear what they'll be doing, are really likely to have a good impact.

And I think also chatting to young people about those ideas, so if you're trying to get an initiative off the ground, actually bringing young people into the process of designing it. How might this engage young people? What social posts might we think about using, or what channels might we use, or are there particular groups that we could go to and speak with about this?

And always thinking small to start off with, not thinking in terms of huge events or huge programs from the off. Actually just thinking about what is a sort of minimum viable first step and then building from there.

Nathaniel Diong: Thanks, Sam. I'll take two or three more questions.

We have a question from Brad as well in the chat. From your perspective, what can someone from an older generation do to relate more naturally to teenagers and people in their early 20s? Sarah, I think you're the best person to take this one so I'm going to throw it to you.

Sarah Mayo: When I saw that come in, it just made me think of a conference that I was part of a couple of months ago where someone asked the exact same question to a panellist. And the panellist, who was 19 or 20, said: don't be weird.

So I think sometimes we're trying to really relate to them on another level. We're trying to use their language. And I think we just don't need to, easier said than done, yes. I think what they're looking for is genuine connection and to feel seen and heard. So just asking questions about their lives. I think that appeals more naturally to teenagers than you trying to get with their lingo or the newest trends, because that can sometimes make it more cringeworthy for them and create more of a barrier.

I think just trying to be as authentic as you possibly can. I don't know if I answered that in the way that you were looking for, but that's kind of my advice.

Nathaniel Diong: Thanks, Sarah. Don't be weird. We have a lot of good taglines from this call today.

I have another question that was submitted. I feel like this might be a good one for you, Brendon. The question is: what works for keeping young people engaged in online programs? What's the most important form of support for youth?

Brendon Eglinton: That's a really good question.

When it comes to online programs, obviously I can't be the one that leads that because I'm 50 plus. Saying that, the content needs to be relatable. I think it probably aligns with a similar question. For me, the biggest tip is rather than being that organisation or that community that's doing something for the youth, it's more about what are we actually doing with youth, what are we doing together, what are you part of when it comes to this?

So when it comes to these online programs, it's having that connection from the beginning. Have them involved from the beginning, whether that be through focus groups or right from the outset, setting up the project. Not youth consulted, but youth part of putting together that program. And it's finding not just one way of doing things, but multiple ways of seeking connection. From my learning and development experience, there are multi ways of connecting and helping a person learn. It's more about asking rather than assuming, and finding that way that connects, embeds, helps them practice and experience it the way that they deserve to experience it. And you really don't know that until you ask them, right from the beginning.

Nathaniel Diong: Awesome. Thanks, Brendon. I think that wraps us up with questions. Any last burning questions? I'll watch the chat for another few seconds to see if anything else comes through, but if not, thank you again to Sam, Brendon and Sarah. It has been a pleasure to learn from all of your insights. And with that, I might chuck to Sherryl to wrap us up for today. Sherryl, over to you.

Sherryl Reddy: Thank you. Thanks so much, Nathaniel, Sam, Brendon and Sarah. This has been an absolute gift. Mountains of gratitude to all of you.

I do think we should have called this webinar 'Things every social enterprise needs to know about doing good work and being a good workplace for everyone you engage with.' Because honestly, I know my colleague who's online, we're just texting each other, going 100%, 100%. We could learn so much from this, at Social Enterprise Australia as well, you know, as a national peak.

As I know one of you mentioned, for social enterprises working across a whole range of industries and impact areas, whether they're frontline service providers or research and engagement agencies, there's so much that you've shared that is of so much value. So thank you to each of you.

I've been taking notes the whole time. I've got some wonderful takeaways I want to share before we wrap up.

But I would like, before everyone jumps off, to thank the wonderful audience that joined us today for your interactions. Before you jump off, if you could take a minute to complete a little poll or survey that should be popping up on your screen now, that would be wonderful.

Also wanted to thank the Department of Social Services for supporting these learning communities and for creating the opportunity for you all to come together in a Community of Practice in the way that you wanted to, and to co-create this wonderful toolkit, which I'm really looking forward to sharing further when it's ready.

Just wanted to say huge thanks to each of you for sharing your expertise with us today and for your time and care over the past 12 months, providing peer support to each other and sharing your expertise not only in this small group but with a wider group that was part of your Community of Practice.

Nathaniel, you sharing the work you did, mapping 120 youth led organisations across Australia, that alone creates impact, because people learn who's out there doing what. I'm not alone.

Brendon, loved your reflections on thinking back to front and centring honesty in the recruitment and interview process, and asking the question: what works for you? How do we give you your best start? How do you want to be a part of that best start? Pearls of wisdom, absolute pearls.

Sarah, I'm going to use that line of focusing on the person, not the paper, not the resume. Relationships first is a value that we should place the most emphasis on in everything we do. And we should prioritise clarity, warmth and psychological safety from the get go. I also loved your reflection on reassurance over instruction, not only for young people but for everyone that we work with.

And Sam, I love the way you emphasised respect, respecting diversity, respecting the individual needs of each person you engage with, and the human rights of young people to have a say in the issues that impact them.

And I think what resonated a lot with us at Social Enterprise Australia is also your reflection on engagement being about recognising that people are holding a lot in their lives. And I know across the social enterprise sector, people are holding a lot across communities, across neighbourhoods, across families, in personal and professional lives. And so I thought what you said about wanting to be part of an organisation that enables people to see what can be done, and how we can support each other and hold other organisations to higher standards of relational work, really stayed with me.

So I just wanted to thank all of you for championing each other's work the way you do, for championing the social enterprise sector the way you do, and for your courage and honesty in this conversation today. Huge, huge thanks.

If you've finished the survey, thank you. For those still joining us, thank you for being here today. We wish all of you well. Take care, be well and we look forward to connecting with all of you, speakers and audience members, in the social enterprise community in the future.

Thank you. Thanks everyone.

Nathaniel Diong: Thanks, Sherryl. Thanks everyone.

Thanks, Sam, Brendon, Sarah.