Transcript: Human Rights is Our Business

Music: People Have The Power (Instrumental) by Simone Del Freo

Sherryl Reddy: Thanks so much for joining us today in this Open Learning event called 'Human Rights Is Our Business'. We're really excited to host this session to mark World Human Rights Day, which is tomorrow, 10 December. 

My name is Sherryl Reddy, and it's a real pleasure on behalf of Social Enterprise Australia to host this webinar. I'm stepping in today on behalf of Patricia Kaziro, founder of Impact Business School. Patricia was unable to facilitate today's conversation due to illness. We wish you a quick recovery, Patricia.

This webinar emerged from work that Patricia and the Impact Business School are leading in collaboration with Usman Iftikhar from Catalysr. They're developing a practical toolkit on human rights in business as part of the Social Enterprise Development Initiative, and we'll share more later in the session about how you can get involved in the development of that educational resource. 

We're absolutely thrilled to be in this Zoom room marking World Human Rights Day with Hedayat Osyan, CEO of CommUnity Construction. Kali Goldstone, Strategic Engagement and Advocacy Officer at the Australian Human Rights Commission and Daney Faddoul, Campaign Manager at the Human Rights Law Centre. All of these wonderful people are kindly sharing their insights and stories to help build our understanding of human rights obligations in social enterprise. As businesses that commit to prioritising people and planet over profit, social enterprises are well placed to lead the way in demonstrating respect for human rights as a core value and core practice of business operations. 

Before we hear from this lineup of speakers, I'd like to acknowledge the Traditional Custodians and care holders of the unceded lands from which we're all joining today. As a migrant settler to this country, I'm privileged to live on the lands of the Wodi Wodi people of the Dharawal language group. I pay my respects to Elders past and present who've cared for Country and community for thousands of years. I extend that respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people joining today or viewing this recording later. I recognise and am thankful that your presence holds over 65,000 years of systems thinking and relational care for people, place and planet. When we talk about human rights, we recognise our responsibility to stand alongside Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples in the work of self-determination and truth-telling to help grow safe and healing futures for everyone. 

For those who are not familiar with Human Rights Day, it commemorates the anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. This year's global theme is Human Rights as Everyday Essentials, which is a perfect way to start with introducing Hedayat Osyan.

Hedayat is the founder of CommUnity Construction, a social enterprise that provides training, employment and career pathways into Australia's construction industry for people from refugee backgrounds. Hedayat arrived in Australia in 2010. He's completed degrees in Politics, International Relations and Arts and Design at the University of Canberra and he established CommUnity Construction in 2017. Hedayat's leadership and impact have been recognised nationally and internationally, including receiving the 2024 Les Murray Award for Refugee Recognition.

Hedayat, it's lovely to be in the Zoom room with you today. We'd love to learn a bit more about your experiences in the construction industry and your journey starting your own social enterprise. Why does human rights in business matter, and what does it look like on the ground as an everyday essential?

Hedayat Osyan: Thank you, Sherryl and good afternoon, everyone. Thank you so much, Sherryl and Social Enterprise Australia, for giving me this opportunity to speak with two distinguished guests, Kali and Daney, today. 

I believe human rights matter in business because they protect people, promote fairness and ensure responsible conduct. In social enterprise, they matter even more because respecting human rights is central to our mission. If a social enterprise prioritises people and planet over profit, then respecting human rights must sit at the core of how we operate. In social enterprise, we are protecting the rights of workers. A social enterprise ensures that every person involved in the business is treated with respect and dignity. This includes:

• fair wages
• safer working conditions
• non-discrimination in hiring, training and promotion
• supporting vulnerable communities such as refugees, women and people with disabilities
• providing job security and professional growth
• and also creating inclusive employment pathways.

Social enterprises often hire people with systematic barriers in the labour market, including refugees, migrants, First Nations people, women, young people and other marginalised communities. By doing this, they break the cycle of exclusion created by racism and bias, providing meaningful jobs to individuals who have been overlooked or discriminated against. 

Let me share why I started my social enterprise and how I started. When I finished university in Canberra, my honours degree in 2016, I moved to Sydney during Christmas break, and was working on a construction site. It was a very hot summer day like today. I was working on a big construction site in Sydney City. There were a lot of refugees like myself who were working on that site. There was one guy, he was a forklift driver, and he was making lots of trouble for people who don't speak English or who don't defend themselves. He often walked on the fresh tile, which some refugees worked on for the long day. Then by the end of the day, this guy came and walked over it. The people who are refugees couldn't defend themselves. 

It was lunchtime on a very hot day, and this guy came to the lunchroom, and he started making fun of people who don't speak English. Then I stood up, and I said, “This is not right, I'm not gonna let you do this.” After that guy left everyone in the room from refugee backgrounds, they said, "You're lucky you speak English. You have built a network, and why are you working in this tough environment? We have been working in this environment for a long time. Sometimes we have been ripped off, sometimes we have been exploited. We work for a company for one month, and after the end of the month, the employer says we are not going to pay you. We have no idea how to navigate the system, how to ask for our rights.”

Also they are scared of authority, they don't want to go to court or Fair Trading, they have never heard of this. I said, “This is not right, and we have to do something.” They asked me, “you're one of us, you came to Australia by boat like us. Can you provide a safe space for us? We really want to work, we want to contribute, we want to support our family. We don't want to be on Centrelink. Is there any way you can provide a safe space for us so we can work?”. 

I did some research, and I found that construction is a huge industry in Australia. It's booming. At the same time, there's a labour shortage. Even now, there's around 95,000 labour shortage in the construction industry. Then I thought this is a perfect area - I can set up a company to train this type of resource to fill this gap. 

I started my social enterprise CommUnity Construction in 2017. In the last nine years, we employed over 100 people who have previously been exploited. Some of them have been mistreated in the workforce. Now most of these 100 people are working full-time in the construction industry. Around 80% of them bought their own houses in Sydney. Seven of them set up their own company. 

My business was invited to an international event, the Global Refugee Forum in Geneva two years ago, to showcase my business as a good practice. I believe every individual can make a contribution if you give them equal opportunity and treat them with respect and dignity. Thank you. 

Sherryl Reddy: Thank you so much, Hedayat, for sharing your personal and professional experiences with us, and for giving us a tiny glimpse of what you've experienced. It's mind-blowing, and not in a good way, to know that in 2025, such harmful exploitation and abuse continues to happen in Australian workplaces across many industries, not only construction. 

At the same time, it's equally mind-blowing, in a good way, to hear how you've created a different way of doing and being not only for yourself, but for so many other refugee entrants and their families. Really looking forward to delving deeper into this in the panel discussion. Thank you.

We're excited now to hear from Kali. Kali is an accomplished international human rights lawyer, bringing over two decades of experience advocating for the rights of women, children, refugees and internally displaced persons. Her work is driven by a passion for equity, inclusion and the belief that meaningful change is possible when policy, advocacy and community engagement come together. 

Kali, many of us in the social enterprise and social economy world ground our business, as Hedayat was saying, in values of fairness, equity, creating work opportunities for people experiencing discrimination in the labour market, including people with disability and people from refugee backgrounds, to name a few. Could you give us a sense of the human rights obligations and the framework that applies to business owners in Australia? How do we know what we need to do to comply with human rights standards?

Kali Goldstone: Hi everyone, welcome. It's a pleasure to be here. I have to say it's been wonderful to get to know you, Sherryl, and to have you involved in Daney and my Business and Human Rights Act Joint Advocacy Group. 

I want to acknowledge that I am calling in from unceded Gadigal lands of the Eora Nation. I'd like to pay my respects to past, present and emerging leaders and particularly any person who identifies as First Nations on this call.

Frameworks and policy reform, all of this is really important, because no matter who we are or what circumstances we find ourselves in, we all have a right to be treated with respect and dignity by our government, by those who work for it and by our fellow community members.

Human rights gives us a roadmap to create the kind of society we all want to live in. One built on equality, freedom, respect, dignity, kindness and looking out for each other. When human rights are respected, our lives are better, and our communities are stronger, healthier, safer and more prosperous. 

The current situation here in Australia is really interesting. The reality is that human rights in Australia are not as well protected as you think. Australia has signed up to international human rights treaties, but we have not properly translated those commitments into our national domestic law. Our framework is a patchwork. There are rights scattered across different laws. The Constitution, common law and different state and federal laws relate to, for instance, discrimination law. It's incomplete, and it's really hard to understand even for a human rights lawyer like myself.

The Constitution only protects a handful of rights, and discrimination law covers some areas, but many key rights have no federal protections. So unlike similar nations like New Zealand, Canada, and the UK, we have no national Human Rights Act. We do have state-based Human Rights Acts in Queensland, Victoria and the ACT, and they've proven to have really positive impacts. It's time for the rest of Australia to catch up. 

The Commission proposed a national Human Rights Act that was adopted by the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights, which my friend Daney will go into in his presentation. It's designed to reflect the values that Australia stands for, which are fairness, dignity and inclusion. It's built on international agreements that protect people's basic rights like freedom of speech and association, access to education, the right to health and housing and the right to work. For purpose-driven organisations, this kind of legislation supports a more inclusive and value-led society where human rights aren't just talked about, they're actively protected and promoted. 

A national Human Rights Act would require governments and public servants to consider human rights when making decisions, delivering services and developing laws and policies. To give you a nuanced view, if you are a private business that has a federal contract to deliver services, you will also fall under the purview of the Human Rights Act. This simple step fosters a culture of prevention, thinking about rights before acting, and it builds transparency and accountability. Importantly, there is no extra regulatory burden for businesses. 

While the act primarily applies to government, it really matters for business too. It provides clarity on human rights standards and expectations. It creates a level playing field where both public and private sectors respect rights. It encourages businesses to engage in human rights due diligence, maintain open dialogue with stakeholders and adopt international best practices. This is not just compliance; it's risk mitigation, workforce retention, and reputation building. 

Businesses, as you know already, have obligations under laws like the Racial Discrimination Act, the Sex Discrimination Act, the Fair Work Act and the Modern Slavery Act. A national Human Rights Act complements these by embedding rights into government policy and law-making. So, what areas, for businesses like yourselves, will be impacted by the Human Rights Act? Firstly, modern slavery encourages stronger due diligence and transparency in supply chains. That's what a Human Rights Act will do. A Human Rights Act will build on the Modern Slavery Act, which already requires large businesses to report on risk. Again, it won't place a further or extra regulatory burden on business. 

In terms of disability employment, it promotes inclusive hiring and workplace accessibility. Australia ranks really poorly when it comes to disability in the workplace. Only 53% of people with disability are in the workforce compared to 84% without. 

In terms of gender equality, it will support the proactive obligations to prevent discrimination, which is a positive duty that came out of, speaking from experience, the work that was done here at the Australian Human Rights Commission. Interestingly, despite progress, women only hold 19% of CEO roles and earn 21.7% less on average. And I can tell you that taking the years out that I have to have my children, my superannuation is also not as strong as it should be. 

In terms of environmental protections, it reinforces sustainability and intergenerational equity. It aligns with commitments under the Climate Change Act and the Paris Agreement. A Human Rights Act will clear pathways for accountability. It will create accessible mechanisms for individuals to challenge laws, policies and practices that are inconsistent with human rights standards, which in turn makes those creating the policy or legislation or administering the service be more accountable from the outset, which then hopefully prevents some harm being caused in the first place.

It will strengthen the social foundations that you as a business rely on, and it will create a fairer, more resilient society where everyone can thrive. In turn, the government's commitment to these standards enhances its credibility and accountability, reinforcing a culture of rights. Respecting governance that mirrors the responsibilities already placed on business. It's not just a legal reform, it's a cultural shift. It's about building an Australia where rights are respected, communities are stronger, and businesses can lead with confidence and integrity. Thank you. 

Sherryl Reddy: Thanks so much, Kali. Wow, when you talked about the current situation across Australia, human rights in business is a complex beast, especially for those whose business operates in more than one state or territory. If there are different laws and different jurisdictions, that's not an easy task for social enterprises, when it's hard enough just keeping the enterprise running day-to-day. 

Kali Goldstone: Yeah, and I would also quickly say that not only does it make it difficult to work out which legislation applies or which legislation will give the best access to pathway to remedy, but also it doesn't take into account the intersectional nature of harm. Often, people experience harm in multiple ways because of their gender or sex, their race, religion, or nationality, and it melds together. The way in which our law is expressed at the moment silos it and prevents people from properly standing up for their rights and having access to remedies.

Sherryl Reddy: Thanks, Kali. It's so great for us in the social enterprise space to learn about the human rights standards and the frameworks that we need to be aware of to do our business in line with our values and the law.

It will be interesting to speak next to Daney about the value of having a national Human Rights Act and the importance of advocating for one, because what you've described in terms of the current situation sounds both essential and also complex for the average social enterprise or business owner to navigate.

Daney, it's lovely to have you here today. For those who don't know Daney Faddoul, he has a wealth of campaigning experience from his time in the union movement and also at GetUp, developing and leading campaigns on economic justice. Daney joined the Human Rights Law Centre in 2020 and is passionate about creating an Australian Human Rights Act. 

Daney, I'd love to know a bit more from you about what it would look and feel like to have a national Human Rights Act for the average business owner.

Daney Faddoul: Fantastic. Thank you so much for that, Sherryl and great to see you all today. 

I want to begin by acknowledging that I'm coming to you from Gadigal land and pay respects to Elders past and present, and sovereignty was never ceded. I also wanted to note that today there is an apology being provided by the Victorian Government in the lead-up to the celebration of the Victorian Treaty that's taking place this Friday. Human rights benefit everyone, but in particular, they benefit marginalised communities, especially the oldest continuous living culture and civilisation on this planet, which have not had their human rights respected ever since first contact took place in 1788.

I want to start by picking up where Kali left off. We have these values that we all agree on as a society: equality, freedom, dignity, justice. But those values are not at the heart of government decision-making, service provision or laws for that matter. A whole bunch of things that governments need to be considering. How much does something cost? Did we promise this at the last election? What does the community think about it? All relevant things to consider, but human rights are not one of those things that they consider, and that's what those values are about. Think of human rights as an expression of those particular values when it comes to specific things that everyone in our society should be able to enjoy and benefit from. 

We're not talking about things where those values are not in our laws and in our services, having no consequences. We've had Royal Commissions' worth of examples where that's not the case. The Aged Care Royal Commission, the Disability Royal Commission, and the Robodebt Royal Commission in the last four years. The Disability and Aged Care Royal Commissions both highlighted human rights standards not being at the heart of those particular areas, being a fundamental reason why there were systemic problems that got to the point where a Royal Commission was needed to get to the bottom of it. Both of these Royal Commissions recommended human rights standards as a key way of ensuring there isn’t a repetition of the issues these Royal Commissions faced. As folks in this audience would know, both of these areas are not just areas the government is engaged in, but a lot of social enterprises are involved in as well.

We're not talking about something that only the government needs to be looking at. It's something that has consequences well beyond that as well. That's where a Human Rights Act comes in. It provides an expression in law of those human rights standards that not only we've promised the world to uphold, as Kali mentioned in her presentation, but also those standards that our community would expect. Those standards include civil rights like privacy, the right to equality, and the right to dignified treatment. The economic and social rights, housing, health, education, cultural rights, the right to a healthy environment, all of those standards are placed into law with a Human Rights Act.

That means that two things happen. The government must consider those human rights when they come up with a new law, a new policy or when running a service. It also means people have the ability to take action. There's something they can point to and then take action, as a consequence, if those rights are not being respected. Something which is incredibly difficult to do right now, as Kali mentioned in her presentation.

As Kali mentioned, we already have three jurisdictions at the state and territory level where this already happens. We don't have to consider this as something that's happening overseas to look at or even something that's theoretical. We can look at it practically, how it operates in Queensland, Victoria and the ACT. We've compiled a hundred and one examples of how those human rights standards have benefited people in Queensland, Victoria and the ACT.

I want to share two stories with you from that. One is in Queensland, where a domestic violence survivor was in social housing. That social housing was provided by a community housing organisation on behalf of the Queensland government, and she was being evicted from that social housing due to the actions of her abusive ex-partner in breaching the lease. By using the Queensland Human Rights Act with the support of Tenants Queensland, she was able to raise with the social housing provider that they hadn't properly considered her rights under the Queensland Human Rights Act in that process. The community housing provider looked at that issue again. Realised that they had not properly considered the human rights standards in the Queensland Human Rights Act, and as a result, the eviction got reversed and she was able to stay at home with her family. 

Another example that we've got in the ‘101 cases’ is of a child with a disability during the COVID-19 pandemic. They just came back from overseas, and they were placed into hotel quarantine. Hotel quarantine was mandated by the government, but was being provided by contract with a non-government entity. In that hotel quarantine process that child with disability was not getting the support and services that they needed to help manage their disability. Their well-being and health were clearly going to deteriorate in that hotel quarantine situation in extreme isolation. By using the Queensland Human Rights Act, they raised the issue with the Queensland Human Rights Commission. Queensland Human Rights Commission raised it with the Queensland Government and the provider of the hotel quarantine service for the Queensland Government. The very next day, that child and their family were taken out of hotel quarantine and placed into isolation at home for the quarantine period so that the child could access the disability support services that they needed. That's the sort of power that human rights standards can provide to benefit people across our community.

The most beneficial way that the Human Rights Act works is better decisions at the very beginning. Because you have better decisions by the government, better laws at the very beginning, and better service provision, which means you avoid those problems later on down the track. Obviously, nothing will be perfect, and so you need that ability to take action when those rights are being breached. It's in that context that the Federal Government asked the Federal Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights to inquire into whether there should be a national Human Rights Act to replicate what has happened in Queensland since 2019, Victoria since 2006 and the ACT since 2004. Because those Acts only apply at the state and territory level, they don't apply at the Federal government level.

That inquiry took place between March 2023 and May 2024. It ran for 15 months, received 338 submissions, and held 6 public hearings in Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne and Brisbane. The vast majority of the submissions supported a Human Rights Act. Ditto the inquiry, hearings and the testimony they heard orally from a whole bunch of organisations, and individual experts. The Parliamentary Committee on Human Rights recommended, amongst other things, that there should be a national Human Rights Act. It should include all those human rights standards that Kali and I mentioned, and there should be an effective way of ensuring those rights are enforced by people if their rights are not being respected. That inquiry recommendation was fantastic. Also, they had an illustrative Human Rights Act at the back of their report. So that's always nice to see how it pans out in detail. 

That inquiry report is still under consideration by the Federal Government. So we're still at a point where the Federal Government is considering whether to implement a Human Rights Act at a national level and follow the example of Queensland, Victoria and the ACT in making a Human Rights Act a reality. 

I think it's important to note that Human Rights Acts don't happen by themselves. The fact that we have an inquiry recommendation doesn't guarantee that we're going to have a ‘yes’ from the Federal Government or that it'll be implemented by the Federal Parliament. That's why we have the Human Rights Act Campaign. We have a campaign with 150 organisations across civil society and thousands of people across the community calling for a Human Rights Act. If a Human Rights Act benefits everyone across our community, so should the coalition of organisations calling for a Human Rights Act. That coalition includes organisations like the Responsible Investment Association of Australasia, the Australian Council of Social Services, Federation of Ethnic Community Councils of Australia, and People with Disability Australia. There's a whole gamut of organisations across civil society. You can look at the full list on our website. That's why we want to have that campaign coalition. The more people who are calling for it, the better. The more people who are calling for it, the faster we'll achieve a Human Rights Act and make it a reality so that everyone across our community can benefit.

If you are a supporter of the Human Rights Act, that's fantastic. Talking about it with friends, family and colleagues is important. We've got fact sheets listing how the Human Rights Act benefits people across a number of different ways and a number of different parts of our community. We also have a report that we released in February on the right to housing. A number of community organisations are involved in the housing space. That report shows how, by having a Human Rights Act, we can talk about housing, not regarding numbers and prices, but in relation to people. When you have people at the heart of that conversation, you have better conversations at the start and then better policies and decisions that happen at the end of the day. Then better implementation of those policies and decisions because it's about people, not about numbers and prices.

So I might leave it there, and I look forward to hearing your questions. Thank you for the opportunity to speak and talk about how we can make human rights standards a reality for everyone across our community. 

Sherryl Reddy: Thanks so much, Daney. It's great to know about the campaign for a National Human Rights Act. We're super grateful for the work that you're doing and really excited to learn more about how we can support it. 

We have three questions that came through to us from social enterprises in conversations leading up to this webinar. The first one is acknowledging that social enterprises already struggle to do a lot with limited funds. The question that comes up a lot is, does it cost a packet in time and money to make human rights part of the business practice? Hedayat. I wonder what your thoughts on this are? 

Hedayat Osyan: Sure. Thank you for the question. My answer is no. It doesn't have to cost them a packet. With proportional expectation and the right support, social enterprises can strengthen their human rights practice without taking any resources away from their core mission. What is important is that proportionally, a small social enterprise shouldn't be held to the same process expectation as a large corporation. With a particular template, sector support and scalable guidelines, this does not need to drain any resources. Respecting human rights does not have to cost any money for a social enterprise. In fact, for most social enterprises, it builds on practices they already do. 

For example, for our social enterprise, we treat the workers fairly, providing a safe environment for them. We are very transparent, avoiding exploitation. It doesn't cost anything for us. I'm running this social enterprise, and in the last nine years, we have employed 115 people. We haven't received a single dollar from the government. We are a very self-funded organisation. We contract the project. We provide a very safe space for refugees to flourish. At the same time, we transform their life and also we make a profit. I believe if we give them the right support, if there's a right structure in the environment, there's no cost involved. Thank you.

Sherryl Reddy: Thanks, Hedayat. It doesn't cost much to be a good human. 

Hedayat Osyan: Exactly. Yeah. 

Sherryl Reddy: Daney and Kali, did you have anything you wanted to add to that question? 

Kali Goldstone: I would just say that it mitigates risk, and it allows you to hold on to your workforce. I imagine that's one of the big challenges that you have, all these great people working for you, and you don't necessarily have enough time with them. The more you create an environment that respects people's fundamental rights, that gives them dignity, a sense of worth, and purpose, the more they will want to work for you. They will turn up with good intentions, and they will give their best. It becomes a cycle of nurturing as opposed to a cycle of punishment or deterrence. 

Sherryl Reddy: I think that's a really important point, Kali. Especially when we look at the Federal Government's productivity agenda. We do want to see increased economic participation, but productivity needs to be productivity with safety and dignity at its core. 

Daney, did you have anything you wanted to add to that question or that response?

Daney Faddoul: Just to add that prevention is always cheaper than fixing a problem. To give you a sense of how much we're talking about, the Disability Royal Commission, which went for years, cost half a billion dollars to operate. That's just the inquiry. Fixing problems that could have been sorted at the outset if they had designed buildings better, and created a system and process at the outset that thought about the needs of people with disabilities. If you had done that process at the outset, you wouldn't have needed a huge inquiry with massive expense. Also expensive for people reliving trauma, going through that process. Then, having to go back and fix systems and processes that are in place to better comply with the recommendations of that Royal Commission. That is the sort of thing to think about. 

The problem you've got, of course, is that when it comes to prevention, it's something which is really easy to quantify at the outset, how much that may cost. It's not so easy to quantify if there's a problem. The reason why it's not so easy to quantify as a problem is that it relies on people speaking up. I think the critical thing to note is you shouldn't have to wait for people to speak up to raise a problem, because when they are speaking up, chances are that's the first of a lot of people who will be raising that problem. Suddenly a problem that may look like a small problem at first mushrooms very quickly. That is why I think it's important to note that prevention is always better than a cure. Having those human rights standards considered at the outset leads to avoiding problems later on down the track.

A good example is when it comes to privacy. If you don't have good privacy policies, standards and the like, that's something you do at the outset to avoid a problem later. You do not want to be the Qantas, the Optus, the Medibank Private that basically had millions of customers' details that suddenly got hacked into the universe because they didn't have up-to-date privacy standards, policies and procedures to ensure that they weren't carrying so much data that wasn't needed anymore. That led to former customers having their details hacked, let alone of course their systems not being robust enough to deal with the sort of hacking that goes on these days. So it's that sort of example, fix it at the outset. Have that consideration of human rights standards at the outset which leads to better decisions and prevents problems from happening later on down the track.

Sherryl Reddy: Yeah, it aligns with what Kali was saying around risk mitigation. What's the risk of not doing, not complying with basic human rights as part of your business? Thanks, Daney. 

Another question that comes up quite often, and we hear it quite regularly, is my social enterprise or my business has a diversity and inclusion policy, we have a diversity and inclusion strategy, isn't that enough? Kali, I wonder if this is something that you see and hear at the Australian Human Rights Commission as well.

Kali Goldstone: Yeah, we deal with this a lot, and I have to say it's a great start, but honestly, it's not enough on its own. In Australia, the issue is that diversity and inclusion (D&I) aren't just nice to have; it's not just a business trend, it's a human rights obligation. It's about making sure every person has dignity, equality and the ability to participate fully in the workforce. 

Our laws like the Fair Work Act, Sex Discrimination Act, Racial Discrimination Act and even the Disability Discrimination Act already set out that expectation. The problem I see is that D&I programs today focus on optics or business metrics, and they risk becoming very performative, rather than tackling systemic disadvantage and creating real equality. True inclusion really means going beyond policy. It means embedding principles like anti-racism, self-determination and intersectionality into how you hire, promote and design your workplace culture. When you root D&I in a human rights framework, you're not just ticking a box. You're actually building a workplace that's fair, lawful, genuinely inclusive, and that approach reduces risk, strengthens trust, and makes sure every worker, regardless of their background, has a right to a safe, respectful and equitable workplace where they can thrive.

D&I, and I can't stress this enough, is not anti-racism work. While D&I may include anti-racism as one of its components, it doesn't centre race or the systemic nature of racism unless it's designed to explicitly do that. Anti-racism is inherently political, and it's based on concepts of justice and equity. It challenges these dominant narratives and calls for the redistribution of power and resources. D&I practice, particularly in a corporate setting or an institutional setting, is often framed in an apolitical or business case terms, which can limit the potential for transformation in the business. That is why we still need an anti-racism strategy. 

Here at the Australian Human Rights Commission, we have a roadmap for governments, non-government organisations, businesses and civil society organisations to take anti-racism action across the sector. It's called the NARF, the National Anti-Racism Framework. It still has not been adopted, and has broad support. There are 63 recommendations that are a call to action from across Australia's systems and structures, including the justice system, the legal system, health, education, workplaces, media, the arts and data. Exactly what you were talking about before, Daney. The commission intends for the framework to be a living document that grows as communities experience and as racism evolves. So you need both, is the point. 

Sherryl Reddy: Thanks, Kali. Daney, did you want to add something to that response?

Daney Faddoul: One thing I wanted to add is that when it comes to diversity, equity and inclusion, one of the things to remember is that it's policy. Policy is pretty straightforward to get rid of if you don't want it anymore. We're seeing it happening right now in the United States. That is why we're talking about legislation with the Human Rights Act, and then policies and the like that flow from that, because you need that foundation. If you have a human rights foundation that is legislated, that is solid, then you can build all the various elements, of which diversity, equity, and inclusion policies are one. If you have the things that flow from it without the foundation, not only is it more straightforward to get rid of because it's a policy, easy come, easy go, but also, you've got the issue of things that are missing, as Kali mentioned. 

The Human Rights Act has the whole gamut of human rights standards listed. That's important to make sure that you have all of those human rights being considered. When it comes to certain situations, half of those rights might be relevant or only a quarter or only one. By having the full gamut of those rights in the Human Rights Act, it becomes something that's a much more comprehensive process for a better outcome that flows from that.

Sherryl Reddy: Thanks, Daney. Hedayat, did you have anything to add to that question around diversity and inclusion? 

Hedayat Osyan: Sure. I definitely agree with Daney and Kali. The diversity and inclusion policy is really important but it doesn't cover the full picture. 

I have been speaking at different events, and there are a lot of construction companies, big companies, and they come and ask me. We have a diversity and inclusion policy, so it's great to hear about your story. We want to work with you as a partner. When we start our chat and I send some of my documents, they expect a lot from us as a social enterprise, as a very small company. They expect us to have all the documents properly documented and have all the paperwork very professional. That's not working because social enterprise, as you know, is small with very limited resources. So we have to get someone outsourced and professional to provide those documents. That's why after a while, when we chat, they just remain silent. 

As a social enterprise, our impact stretches far beyond our staff. We work with lots of vulnerable communities, suppliers, contractors, participants, and sometimes people in really complex situations. For example, sometimes I book one of my projects and then two of my employees don't come up to the worksite. I have to reach out to them and say what's going on. Some of them have a lot of complex issues, like being very traumatised. Sometimes they have a lot of family issues. I have to work with them and make sure that it's okay. We have a lot of flexibility in trying to work with that community to make sure that we provide enough support for them, at least. Then the next day they can come back to work. 

I think that's really important that we should make sure our program is safe. Are we unintentionally excluding or harming someone? Are people in our supply chain treated fairly? It's important. Thank you.

Sherryl Reddy: Thanks, Hedayat. That's so critical to think about, the unintentional as well as the visible harm. Thank you. 

We have three questions that have popped up in the chat. 

The first question: The Northern Territory has recently re-decreased the age of legal responsibility from 12 to 10, after years of hard work to bring it from 10 to 12. Would a Human Rights Act prevent jurisdictions from such moves? 

Kali Goldstone: Okay, firstly I'd just like to say that this is something that the Commission discusses a lot, particularly through the lens of our First Nations Commissioner, Katie Kiss. It's a terrible reality. It will cause compounded harm after harm after harm. It has generational impacts. Unfortunately, a Human Rights Act will not be able to force state legislation to raise the minimum age to something like 14, which is a recommended age. It doesn't come under the jurisdiction of the federal government. It is under state law. 

While a state Human Rights Act might be able to provide some remedy, some claims against it. Unfortunately, there's not a lot of room there because it is such a political issue. It's like asylum seekers. It's been deeply politicised in Victoria, the media and different groups have stereotyped and villainised certain young people. Then the answer is always, let's minimise the age. Let's create a space where we can hold young people in detention and where we can protect the streets. We're seeing that's not the reality. All the data around it says, actually, the opposite occurs. Unfortunately, no, a national Human Rights Act will not help. Daney, continue the conversation. 

Daney Faddoul: Yeah, the big thing to note is that a Human Rights Act means you've got greater transparency and accountability regarding decisions being made by government, which may not fully adhere to human rights standards.

The Human Rights Act is legislation. It's not a silver bullet that fixes every human rights issue and problem that's out there, and it's not designed to do that. Parliamentary sovereignty is still maintained. What it does do is make sure that there's clear transparency, that there are human rights standards that are not being adhered to if you're going to make that decision to lower the age of criminal responsibility. Then it's up to the community to make a decision. Is that something that you are willing to support or oppose and hold the political leaders accountable for the decisions that they make? 

As Kali mentioned in her presentation, human rights culture is improved when you have a Human Rights Act because it's no longer a Byzantine, complicated labyrinth of incomplete human rights standards that are here, there, everywhere. That no one can point to or understand how they could enforce. That's the benefit of a Human Rights Act in that sort of situation, but it's not a silver bullet. But let me be clear, nothing is a silver bullet. Human rights standards have to be lived, respected and advocated for by people in the community. That's what the transparency and accountability of a Human Rights Act can assist the community to do, if they want to make sure those human rights standards are being upheld.

Sherryl Reddy: Thank you. We might move on to the next question. The issues that Hedayat spoke to earlier in construction are two sides of the same coin. Human rights abuses and exploitation are really common in mainstream supply chains. Social enterprises can be a solution. For many social enterprises, social procurement policies and frameworks can be a competitive advantage. In a procurement context, human rights are often considered through a risk lens. For example, modern slavery legislation is treated very separately from social procurement. So the question is, could a national Human Rights Act help to address this?

Daney Faddoul: Thank you so much, that's a really good question. I think it boils down to this, at the end of the day, it's easier to talk about adhering to human rights standards from a risk perspective if you are a social enterprise then the opportunities that come by showing your values and showing that you're living those values in a whole bunch of different ways. 

A good example of how that's been operating the last couple of decades is when it comes to environmental sustainability. Two decades ago environment sustainability was something that's considered to be a burden, a cost. Do I really need to do this? Now it's considered an advantage. There are people in the community who are not just interested but are anxious to support enterprises, products, and services that have environmental sustainability at its core. So much so that we have corporations and institutions being busted for greenwashing - pretending they are environmentally sustainable but not actually doing so in reality. I think that's something we can see, that social understanding and awareness are growing in the community. 

By having those human rights standards, it's not just about dealing with possible problems before they happen, you are also providing an advantage in a whole bunch of things that you're doing well. You are part of the community, a good social citizen, upholding all of these various standards and people increasingly support human rights.

It's worth noting that surveying that's been done by Amnesty over the last three years shows three out of four Australians support a Human Rights Act. So human rights standards are something that people across our community support, and by being able to express those values in how you operate and how you deal with customers, other organisations, government and the like, has tangible benefits, not just risk mitigation. I hope that helps answer the question. 

Sherryl Reddy: Thanks so much Daney. Appreciate it. 

We've got one last question, and I'm actually going to link that to a final takeaway question from all of you. There's currently a concern regarding marginalised voices being silenced. How can the movement for a Human Rights Act be fostered outside of those who are already converted to the cause? Especially when we're living in a fragmented society where not everybody believes, understands or cares about supporting and respecting the rights of everyone. 

I'm going to link that to a question for each of you. What is one key takeaway or call to action for individuals, social enterprises, peak bodies, and businesses that are online today? What's one thing each of us could do to help strengthen respect for human rights in business?

Kali Goldstone: I think that it's the old saying that your parents always told you: treat people the way you want to be treated. It's really that simple. Treat people with dignity and respect, and they will bust their gut for you. They will do the best that they can for you. Like Daney was discussing, we talk about this being a cultural change. It will create spaces where harm will be prevented. It won't just be dealt with once something serious has caused a deep violation for someone. 

The other call to action from my point of view is to get in touch with your local federal members and tell them that you would like to see a national Human Rights Act. You're a social enterprise that sees the value in having all our rights in one place so people actually have an education and an awareness of what their rights are, but more importantly, there are avenues for enforcement. Once there are clear avenues for enforcement on the same playing field for everyone, it means the person making those policies or that legislative reform or providing that service has to think about that in the very early stages of this process, which then can mitigate risk and it can prevent harm.

Sherryl Reddy: Thanks, Kali. Hedayat? 

Hedayat Osyan: I think I will share my own story. When I arrived in Christmas Island detention centre in 2009, for the first time I was treated with respect and dignity. Even though it was a detention centre. I heard a lot of people complaining about how they have been treated. But for myself, as a personal story, because I am from a minority ethnic group in Afghanistan, I was treated like a second-class citizen. When I got to Australia, for the first time they treated me with respect and dignity, and that gave me a really good impression of Australian communities. I decided I have to work hard to be a part of this community. Even though I came illegally to this country without any documents, from a very underdeveloped country, they welcomed me with open arms. Now I feel it's my responsibility to embrace this community and contribute.

I think every individual in Australian families and also in different organisations and social enterprises can play a key role. If we open our arms, if we respect everyone as a human being, I'm sure those people who come to Australia will embrace, they will feel like they all belong to this country. I think it's as Kali mentioned, it's common sense and we should respect everyone based on humanity. Thank you.

Sherryl Reddy: Thank you, Hedayat. 

Daney Faddoul: You’re gonna love this, folks. That Amnesty International poll I mentioned, where three out of four Australians support a Human Rights Act, also shows that 51% of Australians think we already have one. Could it be US cop shows? And I got the right to remain silent, and where's my phone call? Or is it a situation where people think life's pretty good and there must be human rights standards behind it because we're a Western liberal Democracy? So surely we've got those human rights standards. I don't know the specific reason why, but I think that's one of the reasons why that question is actually relevant. You're not going to fight for something if you think it already exists.

I think the first thing I'd say is talk to friends, family and colleagues about the fact that we do not have those human rights standards in our laws, but we should. Everyone would benefit if that's the case. 

The second thing I would say is to join our Human Rights Act Campaign. You'd be shocked to learn I'd be asking for that, because we'll only achieve this by doing it together. If it benefits everyone across our community, then we need everyone across our community calling for it. 

The final thing I want to share is that we all have a role to play - this isn't going to happen by itself. Past efforts to achieve a Human Rights Act fell over because a whole bunch of misinformation was being peddled as to what a Human Rights Act would do. Which is nonsense, but mis and disinformation can run rampant pretty quickly. Lots of people showing the positive benefits of why we need a Human Rights Act is a far more durable, stronger way of that message getting out there and resonating with the community and our decision-makers. Making sure we talk about a Human Rights Act and the benefits it provides is a powerful way of making sure we win this at the end of the day. I look forward to hearing more from you, and I look forward to folks getting involved in the call for a Human Rights Act to get those human rights benefits for everyone. 

Sherryl Reddy: Thank you Daney, Kali and Hedayat.

Our call to action is to encourage everyone to contribute to the development of a Human Rights is Our Business educational resource that the Impact Business school and Catalysr are creating. The aim of the resource is to help businesses understand their human rights obligations, apply them in daily operations, and build safe and respectful workplaces for everyone. Tell us what you'd like to see in that learning resource to help you grow rights-respecting practices as part of your social enterprise. 

There's lots to think about and lots to action from this critical conversation. 

Deepest thanks to Hedayat, Kali and Daney for your generosity in sharing your wisdom, experiences and expertise with us today. Thank you too for your boundless passion and commitment to human rights as everyday essentials for everyone. 

Mountains of gratitude also to Patricia Kaziro from Impact Business School and Usman Iftikar from Catalysr for your evolving work in developing a ‘Human Rights in Business’ toolkit for social enterprises. It's much needed, given the conversations we've had today and we're looking forward to seeing it come to life next year.

Thank you to the team at the Department of Social Services who are supporting the development of these learning opportunities as part of the Federal Government's Social Enterprise Development Initiative. 

And thank you to the Social Enterprise Australia crew behind the scenes who make these open learning sessions happen, especially Caragh, Megan and Bree.

Wishing everyone a happy and safe holidays for those taking a break in the coming weeks and we look forward to seeing you in 2026. Thank you.