Transcript: Building and Strengthening Rural Social Enterprise Networks

Music by: Steph Strings ‘San Remo’ (CUBE Street Sessions)

Kate Kutty: Hello, everybody. Welcome. Thank you for joining the session today. It's great to see so many people are keen to be part of the conversation around building and strengthening social enterprise networks. 

My name is Kate and I'm with Social Enterprise Australia. These open learning sessions are part of the Social Enterprise Development Initiative that's been funded federally by the DSS. And we're really excited. It helps us create space for changemakers and supporters to come together, share ideas, collaborate and build connections. So welcome all. We have a wonderful convenor today, Meg Allan from ACRE, and we're going to be delighted to also hear from Ishani, Florence, Belinda, and Fiona. Meg's going to take over shortly to introduce them all.

I would like to stop and recognise the Traditional Custodians of the unceded land that we're on. I'm joining today from beautiful Wangal Country. I would like to recognise the Traditional Owners, Elders past, present and emerging, pay my respects and recognise their continuing links to skies, water and Country. I also welcome any Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander participants in the session today. Your presence holds 65,000 years of systems thinking and caring for people and planet. It's so exciting in this purpose-led sector that we can help carry the responsibility and contribute towards social equity and justice.

So without further ado, I'm going to hand over to Meg. Thanks everyone. 

Meg Allan: Thanks, Kate, for the welcome and the Acknowledgement. My name is Meg Allan. I'm the Market Development Advocacy Lead at ACRE, the Australian Centre for Rural Entrepreneurship. I'm based on Bidwell, Monaro and Yuin Countries. That's Far East Gippsland in a little town called Mallacoota. 

We're all here today because we have a shared belief that strong ecosystems enable social enterprise to thrive, and that is especially true in rural contexts. At ACRE, we're really proud of the role we play as a field builder, contributing to the development of key initiatives both nationally and globally. These have included things such as; the establishment of SENVIC and the Local Leads model, and the establishment of Social Enterprise Australia. We thank them in particular for today's opportunity to be chatting with you. 

We also continue to work really closely with the Social Enterprise World Forum, co-convening a Global Rural Social Enterprise Network. Bringing to life the recommendations of the Rural Social Enterprise Manifesto, which is a key policy document that actually emerged from SENVIC's Local Lead model. It has gone on to have input from over 37 countries and over 100 place-based anchor organisations. Another of our initiatives on the boil at the moment is calling for the co-design of a Rural Social Enterprise Network for Australia with our partners at SENVIC. We see all of these initiatives as really essential to the fabric of the social enterprise sector. 

Rural communities face common barriers, but they also hold distinct strengths and needs that can be misunderstood by our urban counterparts. The services, the population density, the distance and the economies of rural areas are just fundamentally different to our friends in the cities. This creates different challenges to sustainability, scaling and impact for all social enterprises, but also means a different approach to creating networks and bringing social enterprises together. We sit within state and national ecosystems, but also within a unique domain of our own. That's why we're here today to understand more about building and strengthening networks in the rural context and what it actually looks like in practice.

To do that, we're lucky to be joined by four brilliant contributors to this work, and they'll each bring a different perspective from a different lens in the ecosystem. Ishani Chattopadhyay is the CEO of SENVIC, Victoria's social enterprise peak body. Florence Davidson, rural social entrepreneur and Executive Officer of the Christie Centre. Belinda Morrissey, CEO of the English Family Foundation, a catalytic funder of networks. And Fiona Smith, principal at MAKE Studios, a leading co-design firm.

I'm going to start talking with Ishani first and get straight into the conversation. SENVIC utilises the Local Lead model to connect with rural and regional social enterprises and entrepreneurs. I'd love it if you could tell us a little bit more about this Local Leads model and what it means for SENVIC as the state peak body.

Ishani Chattopadhyay: Yes. Good morning, everyone. Thank you, Meg. Firstly, you did a wonderful job with my last name, which I know is quite complicated and not easy to read, so thank you for that. 

I am the CEO of SENVIC. We are the peak body for the social enterprise network in Victoria. We were probably pioneers, along with ACRE, to bring this Local Lead model to Victoria. What that meant was Victoria was divided into five or six regional areas, and it allowed for regional representation of social enterprise founders and related networks through those Local Lead networks, which then fed up to us as SENVIC. We've always been a network of networks. We cannot be everywhere all at the same time, but it's important for us to listen, hear, learn from, curate and facilitate for all participating members across the state. And the Local Lead model was absolutely beneficial to doing that work.

Like you said, the challenges and opportunities in regional or rural areas are very distinct. We absolutely do not want to make assumptions that we understand all from an urban Melbourne lens. Which is what led to our work with the Victorian government to set up those Local Lead networks. It allowed us to get very nuanced feedback and further strengthened our hypothesis that we are making assumptions that need to be validated at a very local level. In between regions, whether it's Geelong or Gippsland, it looks significantly different. Some common challenges, but lots of different challenges. If you're going to proceed and become a Victoria-focused body helping social enterprise thrive in all of Victoria, it is very important to have the Local Lead representation model. The Victorian Social Enterprise Strategy Funding allowed us to do that.

I want to also say, because I'm very cognisant that there may be members from those networks present today, that the funding came to an end when I came into this role about 15 months ago. For us it's a continuous battle to continue to remain relevant for rural and regional social enterprise. That's why we're very happy to partner with ACRE to take this conversation forward and see what this might look like in the future.

Meg Allan: Thanks Ishani. You spoke about the different contexts in each region and being able to understand them when you're city-based. Can you tell us a little bit about how having the Local Leads model has enabled two-way learning between urban and region and forming those connections?

Ishani Chattopadhyay: Yeah, absolutely. We essentially had Local Leads in each of those regional areas and we facilitated a bunch of networking capability-building activities led by the regional leaders. This is not us saying you might need something around this topic. It's actively listening to the feedback and the gaps that existed within that particular region and then being able to support that through funding. 

I remember attending an event in Ballarat where we were focused on understanding verification and certification, the difference between them and why that might help a social enterprise. We did some peer-to-peer learning models from established enterprises and smaller enterprises. I've been part of other discussions where groups of social enterprises from regional Victoria came to the Purpose Precinct and had this two-way learning process of what does it look like to have a physical presence? How might we showcase regional products in a place like the Purpose Precinct - which is at Queen Victoria Market, very central, and has a lot of footfall. Also recognising that it's not a copy-paste model. What does it need for a supply chain that exists rurally or regionally to exist in a market that is city-centric? Those are the kind of learnings and deep nuanced things that we got out of having these regional Local Leads in place.

I can tell you when I received that as part of the handover when I took the role on, I spent some time reading through it. Each region was so distinct. There were certain things that were common, as I said, Gippsland looked very different from Geelong, which looked very different from Hume, which looked very different from Mildura. It's such an opportunity for us to lean in and see what we can leverage and build together. 

Meg Allan: Was that diversity between the regions something you were expecting when you moved into the role, or is it something that the Local Leads helped uncover? 

Ishani Chattopadhyay: A bit of both. I think from my personal background, because I've worked a lot in inclusive entrepreneurship and spent time in Southeast Asia, I knew that hypotheses; that assumptions are very easy to make. We assume we know how things work as an entrepreneur, or having done investments or built companies. That was something I was trained to do, to put those assumptions on the side and start again by asking open-ended questions. I think it was a bit of both. I knew that it would not be as easy for me to get my head around understanding regional Victoria, not having lived in regional Victoria. From a higher level, I was aware that I needed to listen and I needed to dig deep into the data, the insights, the feedback, the qualitative, and the quantitative, to get a sense of what's actually happening regionally.

Meg Allan: Beautiful. Thanks, Ishani. I would like to take this opportunity to ask, do you have any advice for your fellow urban counterparts on how they can engage with rural members of their network or rural social enterprises in general? 

Ishani Chattopadhyay: I don't like to give advice. I definitely would like to share experiences. I think it's a missed opportunity, because the thing around social entrepreneurship is that we all try and drive towards a bigger cause. More equity, more social inclusion, better job opportunities. I think there's this tremendous shared vision, but in order to operationalise that, there are certain systems that need to exist so that everyone is moving forward. That system is not a replicative system. It's not replicating. It's understanding the need of that specific region, bringing some leverage from things that you can borrow from, but also being able to tweak and pivot to the operating context of that particular region.

So my advice, if any, is to have conversations, dig deep, and put all your critical assumptions to the side. 

Meg Allan: That's reflected really deeply in the guiding principles of the Rural Social Enterprise Manifesto to build trust first when working with rural people.

I know you mentioned that the Local Leads model isn't currently funded. I'd love to hear a little bit about what you're thinking for SENVIC in the future, how you can continue to engage in a way with rural and regional social enterprises? What it might look like if you're able to reactivate or create something new with rural social enterprises.

Ishani Chattopadhyay: Great question. Something that is at the front of my mind all the time and probably mentioned in every single board meeting. Florence is on our board. Currently, a lot of the regional conversations are alive because three of our board members are represented regionally. Out of seven, there are three. That's almost 50%. That is one of the great channels that we have, and we intend to keep, so we can keep those conversations alive. If I made the mistake of forgetting, I think the board members are diligent enough to remind me that regions would think about this differently. Those are very robust conversations that we have at the board level, in terms of supporting the work, partnerships and collaborations and being able to work together with others is our path forward. 

We're doing that in an urban context as well. The funding hasn't specifically run out for regional; it's run out in general. We are not supporting our metro Local Leads either, but there are some other options that we are able to use in the interim. In the regions, we do not have those options. Our goal is to find partners, in ACRE, in others who might be present here today, to work together to build this next chapter.

What I'm very cognisant of is that there's amazing work that has already been done. It feels like amazing work is just sitting there to be leveraged. That's the opportunity that exists today for us to work together and create something. 

Meg Allan: Thanks, Ishani. I think that is an example of how the networked and collaborative approach is particularly important when working in a rural context, when funding and resources are scarce for all of us. Thank you, Ishani. Ishani will be joining us again towards the end for some questions. 

We're going to move on to Florence, whom Ishani was mentioning is on the SENVIC board. Florence is also an established social entrepreneur based in Mildura, although I know you're overseas at the moment. Thank you for calling in from the States, Florence. 

You've played a critical role in the Local Leads model along with a whole bunch of other initiatives that are probably too long to list here. I’d really love for you to share what the Local Leads model and involvement with SENVIC has meant to you as a rural social entrepreneur on the ground. In your local ecosystem and for your community. 

Florence Davidson: Thanks, Meg. Today I'm coming from the home of the Ojibwe, Odawa and the Potawatomi people, Native American Indians here in Greater Chicago. I pay my respects to those Traditional Owners and Custodians of land here as well. 

For me the Local Lead component was just so fabulous for us. We are in Mildura, 600 kilometres away from Melbourne. We can't get any further away in Victoria and we are on the tri-state, so we're on the border of New South Wales, Victoria, and an hour away from South Australia. It's quite a unique space. The dilemma we have, as many regions do, is we don't have critical numbers, we don't have critical mass. We are 93,000 people living in 55,000 square kilometres. When we look at the size of some of those townships, it could be your bus queue in the morning, if you're commuting in Melbourne. They're not really large towns, but of course, just as important and pivotal to the well-being of communities throughout the state. 

The Local Lead opportunity for us was to be connected. To reduce the level of isolation that can be felt when you're an entrepreneur. In a small community, sometimes you are the entrepreneur on many, many community committees. It's like most places if you're a busy person, why wouldn't you take on something else as well? There was also a level of fatigue for a number of people who had been trying to get things off the ground over time.

The great ability in that early phase of the Local Leads was about connection. Recognising that even our small community had something vital to offer. That the work we were doing was important and that the people we were looking to provide opportunities for were also important.

I think that was a really fantastic opportunity for us as an organisation, but also for our community in saying just because you're so far away doesn't mean you can't contribute, you can't participate, and you can't be part of this movement that has greater ability to make a positive impact and change for as many people as possible.

Whilst we don't have the critical mass, the impact of that change for people is absolutely life-changing, and we've seen that time and time again. Being part of the Local Lead component allowed us to branch out, to be able to acknowledge that other people were also trying to provide social enterprises or be socially enterprising, even if they weren't quite a social enterprise. They were able to come together with that common goal, looking at purpose and passion, but also looking for local place-based solutions.

We know that when there are place-based solutions, we get some traction within the community. We start to not only turn around the impact for the people who are participating in the social enterprises but also invite others to expand that network to come and be part of the solution. Particularly in bringing along our local businesses and looking at how philanthropy within a community is often untapped, it's often unknown, and unless there's an invitation, sometimes people don't know that they would be welcome to be part of the social enterprise drive and ability to make change.

I think for me the key point for the Local Leads was to be able to create an intra-connection for our community that could then connect with SENVIC as a whole. Whilst funding was really fabulous, it gave us validation, but it was not a large amount of money. In a rural context it doesn't often take an enormous amount of money to create a difference. The big thing was to get people talking, to have people recognising that what they were doing was valued and valuable. And that the more we got together, the greater the voice, the greater we were able to amplify the mission and this vision for a more equitable community. We looked at disadvantage through a lens of capability and not a deficit model and were able to then tap into some of the larger groups that were doing something similar.

For example, we have a nursery called 'GrowAbility'.  A fantastic nursery that came about because we had a few people who worked hard to get their certificate II in horticulture. Horticulture and agribusiness are one of the largest businesses that we have in the Mallee region. A $6 billion industry, the food bowl for Victoria, and I stand by that. Thank you, Gippsland. There weren't any jobs for people when they'd finished their certificate II. We could have done all that training but not then actualised the intent, which was employment for people. We were very fortunate in terms of our philanthropic partners,  Ian Potter Foundation and Colliers, who provided us with the funds to buy a nursery. It has now been going for four years, and is premium. It has beautiful locally grown, locally hardened plants. In terms of sustainability of native vegetation, extremely high in quality. More importantly, we have 22 people employed, and that's ongoing employment that makes a huge difference.

Linking up with other smaller nurseries, we can then tender for larger government tender opportunities. As a small community, we couldn't. We might be able to do 100,000 plants, we can't do a million. If there are 10 social enterprises who can all do 100,000, then we are a valued quality supplier for those goods and services, and that's ultimately from a Local Lead perspective.

Where I'd really like to get us to is being part of a collaborative collective voice that allows people to come together, to value add and to amplify the skills, the qualities and the great product that social enterprises can produce.

Meg Allan: Thanks, Florence. That's a brilliant example of how those barriers we face in rural communities do impact our ability to scale and be sustainable as enterprises, and then to create the impact that we want to. Through that networked and collaborative approach, you could carve out a niche and an area to exist within the broader market.

Thank you so much, Florence, for sharing your insights, and welcome, Belinda. Belinda, you play multiple important leadership roles in the social enterprise sector; however, today you're here as CEO of the English Family Foundation. The English Family Foundation has been a catalytic supporter for the social enterprise sector and a long-term investor in networks. Can you tell us what it is that your organisation has seen in networks and why you've chosen to invest in them?

Belinda Morrissey: Thanks, Meg, I appreciate that. Adding my acknowledgement that I'm joining from Gadigal Country today. Important to acknowledge that because what we're talking about today, networks, is something that First Nation peoples have been doing for, as you mentioned, 65,000 years.

The English Family Foundation have been around since about 2012. Whilst a lot of philanthropy has different sectors that they might have focus or strategies around, ours is around the growth and development of social enterprise. For the last number of years, it's looked at how we can enable the ecosystem to allow social enterprises to thrive. That has fundamentally involved collaboration and networks because we see that as the ability to enable the voices of the sector to come to the fore.

I think the reason why that's been so important to us, it boils down to three key things. Firstly, there is the localisation, decolonising lens over our work, and understanding that local communities have the answers. They often need the resources and the enabling environment to make that happen. So therefore, what is the role of philanthropy? That is something I'm really passionate about. 

I'm a city girl, I'm not a regional girl. My role is often to shut up, listen and learn because I don't necessarily have the answers. How is it that we in philanthropy can bring all of our resources and join the dots and act in that really privileged position of network weaver in a way and enable from that mechanism. That's a lot of what we do at English Family Foundation.

It's also important to acknowledge that our interest in networks stems from a deep belief in how we understand power and how we in philanthropy, shift and share power. How we show up matters and how we meet people where they're at matters.

And lastly, my personal mantra is that change comes at the speed of trust. Therefore, how we as philanthropy can enable that trust to build is really important. For us, that means having the ability for social enterprises to have a seat at the table. I think it's been referenced that it takes a cross-sectoral collaboration to solve the wicked problems that we're facing. We are keen that social enterprise has that seat at the table in relation to that response, and therefore, the ability to really hear multiple voices.

That's been one of the many joys of Social Enterprise Australia. It's enabled voices to come together that we potentially haven't been hearing in the past. How can we unlock that collaboration and enable the sector to collaborate for itself? If I think about Social Enterprise Australia, it was the national strategy initially. Out of that Social Enterprise Australia was born to hold that national strategy work. For me personally it was a privilege to be able to lead that work as an independent because I'm not a social entrepreneur. I didn't have the competing interest in my time and energy. I was actually able to focus and to be that conduit there. It's about understanding that we don't have the answers, but collectively we do. How we unlock that collective power is really important. 

Meg Allan: Thanks, Belinda. It's interesting you've mentioned that you're not a social entrepreneur, but you're involved in these processes. You bring a different perspective and you're able to observe other things. Would you be able to share some insights that you've come across as a funder, being involved in these networks and working closely with social entrepreneurs? 

Belinda Morrissey: Oh, that's a big question. Gosh, how long do we have? Even from a funding point of view, I remember one of the triggers for me early on in my journey was to try and understand the systemic issues and the complexity around that. 

A learning from a Californian foundation who were a pretty traditional funder with a very impressive budget by Australian standards. A new CEO came on board and she did a massive listening tour to really understand; are we doing what we say we do? She decided, actually we're not. From that she flipped the whole model for the foundation to underpin, fund and support collaboration. Understanding that if we are really to move the dial on social issues, it takes everybody to have a seat at the table, but the social sector has to be supported to have that seat at the table. That really influenced me early on in how philanthropy can shift our perspectives, be influenced and therefore drive greater collaboration through our own philanthropic practices. 

Meg Allan: Brilliant. Thanks Belinda. A big thank you to Ishani, Belinda and Florence for giving us an understanding of what exists currently from both a network, a Local Leads, a rural social perspective, and also a funder. 

We're going to slightly shift focus and we're going to chat with Fiona. Fiona is a principal at MAKE Studios, a specialist co-design firm located in Melbourne. They've been working closely with the social enterprise sector, including with ACRE and SENVIC, in developing an approach for the co-design of a Rural Social Enterprise Network for Australia.

Fiona is going to tell us a little bit about what our plans are next and how we're going to start bringing that co-design process to life. So I'm going to hand it over to you Fiona. 

Fiona Smith: Thanks Meg. I'm joining from Wurundjeri Land. I'd like to join the other presenters in paying my respects to Wurundjeri Elders past and present.

I'm also going to share my screen because some of the things I'm talking about are a little easier to get across when you've got some visuals. [See slides in the ‘Explore More’ section].

The first thing I wanted to do whether it's through emojis or putting a hand up. Who here on the call is familiar with co-design, either in theory, as a practice, or through having been part of a co-design process yourself? We've got some hands up, and some thumbs up. Thank you for using the emojis. I'm excited that some of you will have your own personal experiences to draw on with this, because what we're talking about can feel a little abstract. What I'm trying to do with these visuals is make it a little more tangible. 

As it says on the slide;

“A co-design process is a collaborative approach that engages key stakeholders in the creation or development of an initiative, ensuring their voices and experiences directly shape the outcome.”

The idea is that it's an emergent process. It's designed for community collaboration, participation and ownership. That's super important because you can have all the great ideas in the world, but unless people who are actually bringing it to life feel like it's theirs and believe in it, things won't work.

The Venn diagram, I love a Venn diagram for a lot of reasons. Lived experience is front and centre at the top of that diagram. People in rural social enterprises and rural communities will also be looking at drawing on professional experience. That's networks, intermediaries, government, and funding bodies, people who have experience in social enterprise, even if they're not rural social enterprises.

Then we also bring an external perspective into the co-design process. MAKE will be bringing that external perspective to the process. However, the outcomes will be led by those with lived experience and professional experience overall, social enterprises. Ishani and Belinda both mentioned the importance of open-ended questions, listening, learning, and putting your assumptions aside. MAKE with our external perspective will be practising all of those things through a co-design process.

In the call for this process, we're talking about a Rural Social Enterprise Network for Australia. What that actually looks like, how it works or even what it's called, is all going to be shaped by design process participants. That's not something that we're coming in with a fixed end goal for. I know that can feel a little abstract. 

For those of you who haven't been part of a co-design process yourself, I wanted to explain a few of the projects that MAKE has participated in or led. That has included developing a community co-design framework with inclusive services provider GenU, co-designing mental health services with regional communities service providers and Beyond Blue, taking a participatory design and social innovation approach to improve the safety and wellbeing of in-home support workers with WorkSafe Victoria and also co- designing tools and engagement campaigns that led to Victoria being the first state to achieve equal representation for women in the Australian honours with the Victorian government Department of Premier and Cabinet. These are processes that lead to real outcomes. They also lead to real engagement and ownership. MAKE is also an ongoing and active partner in Moving Feast, a network of social enterprises and aligned businesses collaborating for a connected, fair and regenerative Victorian food system led by social enterprise STREAT.

When we talk about how we ensure that co-design outcomes are designed and owned by rural communities, that comes down to designing a governance support and engagement ecosystem to distribute ownership and power. Starting with roles, responsibilities, clarity about who's being brought in, and who's steering things. Clarity is about where people's boundaries and limitations are as well. We established that right at the start. 

I also want to make it clear to anyone who's on the call and thinking about this, that there are many ways to be involved in the co-design process, depending on your experience and your capacity to participate. We really want to ensure that anyone who wants to be part of this process can participate in a way that suits them. Even if it's that you've got too much on your plate right now, but you want to stay in the loop until you have a chance to be more involved. If there's something where you want to take a real leadership role, there are opportunities there. There are opportunities to have your say at any stage of the process. It's really important that this feels like it meets people where they're at and that's not just in terms of what they want from the outcomes, but also where they're at in terms of what they can contribute.

When we look at stakeholders and subject matter experts in this different model that we're pulling together. State-based networks and social enterprise networks will be engaged as stakeholders and subject matter experts. We can ensure that the outcomes create a stronger, more connected social enterprise sector that builds upon and works with the progress and initiatives that state-based networks are making.

We absolutely are saying throughout this that a Rural Social Enterprise Network is not a different thing from the state-based networks. It's something that we're saying we want to look at how we can build those connections between rural communities. To Florence's point, you may have things in common with people an hour away across the border because you've got such a shared context and making sure we're strengthening some of those connections.

To expand on the convenor and governance roles. ACRE and SENVIC are leading the call for the co-design process. We've heard from Meg, Ishani, and Florence within that context. They're looking at securing and managing funding and initiating the establishing phase of the process. Then we're also going to be the convenors establishing a co-design working group to help govern the process. Part of the establishing phase of the process, including the call for participation and stakeholder mapping, will be forming this co-design working group. It'll be made up of people running or working in social enterprises and rural communities.

Other roles to talk a little bit about for the co-design facilitation, MAKE studios will design the co-design process and the engagement activities. We'll also be training regional engagement coordinators and synthesising and collating the outputs of co-design activities. This can be one of those things that needs to keep ticking along and understanding how much regional and rural social enterprises are doing with how little time. It's an important thing to know that there's someone ticking away with it as the process continues.

These Regional Engagement Coordinators are a term we've been using because we want Local Leaders and community members to be trained in co-design, and supported to run co-design activities in their communities using engagement approaches that are suited to their local context. There's not going to be one size fits all for the way people can put a call out.  For example, we know there are some communities where distance is going to be huge, and we need to tap into existing events because that's when people will be coming together. We know there are some communities where there are existing ways of communicating or getting people together to collaborate that we could be looking at and tapping into. Most importantly, we know that the people who have those answers are in the communities themselves. So we're looking at training them and providing them with the tools and resources to work in a way that suits their community. Members of the co-design working group and Regional Engagement Coordinators may have some crossover as well.

A high-level visual of the steps in the co-design process. One thing to understand is that ACRE and MAKE's involvement gradually decreases throughout the process as the participants take ownership of the outcomes and next steps. Looking at the Regional Engagement Coordinator roles in the middle, engaging and prototyping phases. They'll be essential to the reach and the locally appropriate engagement activities of the process. 

Florence talked about people who are being socially enterprising rather than seeing themselves as social enterprises. That's part of what we're hoping to capture with this reach as well. Local engagement leads will be building those connections and bringing people into the process who you may not have thought to self-nominate. 

That's a high-level idea. It looks very linear. We know from experience that there's certainly going to be some twists and turns on the way. But that's also part of the joy of it. To help guide us, ACRE, SENVIC and MAKE have identified some strategies to successfully engage regional and rural social enterprises.

At a high level, I've talked about a pragmatic and flexible approach facilitated by community members. That comes back to the idea that we can't possibly say from Melbourne there's one size that's going to fit all. There's absolutely no way. What we're going to be doing is working in a way that gives a lot of flexibility. We're looking at committing to an emergent process, not a specific outcome. This sort of ambiguity can be uncomfortable for some people, and I think it's important to say we're committing to a process that we know works. The fact that we don't say this is exactly how it's going to be at the end is part of the strength of that process. It's not a weakness of it. 

For co-design to truly work, we need to ask people what they need. We need to listen when they tell us, and we need to be open to being surprised when it doesn't match what we might have thought when we were going in. Belinda gave a great example of that, saying ‘that's what we're going to work with and you can pivot as you go’. The value of an external perspective is that I'm not working in a rural social enterprise so I don't have a bias towards a particular solution. I think that everything I hear will be a surprise on some level. 

Communication and transparency are going to be absolutely key. I think Meg, you mentioned the idea of building trust first and understanding context, and that's going to be central to this prototyping to learn. We'll be looking at using a theory of change model as part of our prototyping. That's our first idea. Once we start with that, we may pivot. That's the value of prototyping. Putting things in front of people so they can see how their input is progressing us towards an end goal, not just being part of a chat, and intentional knowledge sharing.

I think Irene, you had a question about examples or academic studies. You know we'll be building on the impact model framework. We're also going to be leveraging the momentum and the relationships developed in support of the Global Rural Social Enterprise Network to seek knowledge sharing and input from other social enterprise networks and processes.

Meg, is there anything you'd like to dig into a little more? 

Meg Allan: I think you've given us a beautiful overview of the process that we have planned. 

For the rest of us on the call, this is something that we're actively seeking funding for, so that we can bring it to life with MAKE and SENVIC. 

I'd like to commend MAKE's ability to work with rural communities, in particular, being that it can be so complex and different. Down to things that you may not necessarily expect when you're urban-based, such as when might there be childcare available? Is there only public transport? Is there only one hall, and that's the Women's Association's night? Therefore you will have to meet in the pub. All of those little nuances. So thanks, Fiona. 

I'm going to go to questions, and I'm going to start with a question that Fiona's already alluded to and partially started to answer. That's a question from Irene around whether there's any research underpinning the effectiveness of a network model. A caveat that she is an academic, and we always appreciate an academic in the mix. Keen to know the components and connections that have been researched to figure out how we might adopt a similar approach in a new area. 

Before I throw it to one of our panellists, I want to say that we often hear how difficult it is for researchers to engage effectively and efficiently with rural communities and rural social enterprises in particular. That's the potential purpose of the network and something that we would like to be, if we think that would be important, something to be heard in the co-design process when it's taking place. I'm actually going to throw this question to Belinda in terms of the evidence for backing established networks and support in the social enterprise sector as a funder.

Belinda Morrissey: Thanks, Meg. And great question. When I look at the Social Enterprise Australia journey, which started as SENS, the Social Enterprise National Strategy. It was based off the back of incredible work done by Griffith University, which looked at interviews within the Australian social enterprise sector, outside the sector and also globally.

It was really interesting because from a philanthropic point of view, it was easier to convince philanthropy. As we had this research that said, a national strategy is really, really important, but actually, the sector's got to get itself together first. That looks like X, Y and Z bang-bang-bang. We knew the North Star, as Fiona said, it's iterative and exploratory. We knew the North Star, where we wanted to get to, but we had this modular kind of thinking around it. It could look like this, it could look like that. 

It gave philanthropy a bit of an understanding to say, Okay, I can get my head around this now. That research was critical and I would commend that research to you as well because there's been a lot of research done in the social enterprise sector and it's critical intel that can advise and inform. 

Meg Allan: Thanks Belinda. So our first point could be the Social Enterprise National Strategy, and then we can go from there. There's obviously a lot of research out there. 

The next question I have is for Florence. It's around bringing social enterprises together on the ground. You shared a story about working together with different nurseries. The question is what was the call to action to bring all the different people and organisations around? Was there something compelling in the invitation to join this network that cut through the fatigue and noise of all your other commitments and responsibilities?

Florence Davidson: Thanks for that Meg. Absolutely. 

We can't do it on our own. We're going to be left behind. We need to come together. We've all got a common purpose, in this instance, for plants. We've all got plants that are going to be part of a large tender, which could see all of our nurseries be profitable. So how do we do business for good that's also good for our business? Being able to say, I don't know about you, but we're not getting any government contracts because we're too small, we can't hit the mark. We're just falling short. Rather than buying from you at wholesale price and adding them to our plants, why not do it collectively, and see if that makes a better pitch? I guess it's sharing the opportunity, and not getting caught up in competitive tendering, which is quite difficult for smaller organisations to do. How do we do it so that everybody gains a level of benefit that is mutually acceptable for everybody?

Meg Allan: Also finding that common ground and inviting people in for the benefit of each other.

Florence Davidson: One of the strategies we use is the continual invite. Who else can we invite? Is there anybody we've missed? We've invited this group before, but they didn't take up the opportunity. It might be timing. Maybe we can invite them again.

Keep that open relationship going, you never know when the opportunity is going to be right. In similar ways, with yarning circles and talking with our First Nations peoples in terms of how can we do this together? Because it's difficult for everybody. How do we halve the difficulty and double the success? 

Meg Allan: Brilliant. Thanks, Florence. The next question I have is for Ishani from Christopher Booth. 

Is there a strategy of engaging with the Department of Employment & Workplace Relations (DEWR) Local Jobs Program job coordinators in the region?

Ishani Chattopadhyay: Yes, thanks for that question. 

The short answer is yes, but in the spirit of collaboration and activating multiple networks, I think what we realise with government, be it federal, state or local, is that it's less about the position, more about the person. If anyone who's on this call today has warm relationships with particular job coordinators in their regions and/or local councils, please come forward and share that with us. We do not claim to know everybody, and we are always willing to take a warm introduction.

I'm sure Fiona will once she gets onto this co-design process. Some of them potentially could be involved in that co-design process. So the answer is yes. But the door is always open, to Florence's point, for new introductions of people that you may know who might be working in the area and want to talk to us.

Meg Allan: Thanks, Ishani. It seems to be a very common theme to keep your door open, transparency, and inviting people through the whole conversation. So it's definitely coming along as strong - building trust. 

Ishani Chattopadhyay: I just wanted to add something else, Meg. To Florence's point if that's okay.

It just struck me, when we convene metro events, we always look at numbers. How many people showed up? When we look at regional and rural, one of the key things that I've gotten to train myself on is to care less about the numbers. Obviously, the assumption is that there are lots of people; often there aren't. It's who's in the room and who else is coming to join us. Even that shift has allowed us to sometimes have very small rooms, like three people in a conversation, which is still extremely worthwhile. 

Meg Allan: Thanks, Ishani. And that is a brilliant point because the lack of critical mass and population in rural and remote areas is a significant barrier for us engaging with our state-based networks, with our council, with government and all of those. It's not just the distance. When you drive three hours as our local councillors do to come to Mallacoota and you have two people turn up, it can feel disheartening. But when you do the percentage of the whole town, it actually turns out to be quite a good turnout.

Reframing those metrics is always a great thing to do when you're working in rural communities. Another principle out of the Rural Social Enterprise Manifesto is to co-design the metrics of success with rural people so that it exists within their context.

I have a question for Fiona about the co-design. The co-design seems intrinsic to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander ways of working. I'm wondering if there are known ways of framing this work that honour and are particularly respectful to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities.

Fiona Smith: Thanks, Meg, and thanks, Roxanne, for asking this question. I saw it in the chat and it gives me an opportunity to talk about one of our officemates. MAKE is located in a building on a level that's all social enterprises, and we are there because of our partnership with STREAT. One of the other officemates we have is Murrup, who does incredible work in remote Indigenous communities. Their frameworks and their ways of co-designing are a fantastic opportunity to learn and learn from them.

The way they describe it is they're an Aboriginal Community-Controlled Organisation. They are a social enterprise. They partner with remote communities to design and deliver place-based programs. Their focus is supporting children, young people and their families. That includes incredible work in the Tiwi Islands. They do work in communities that are very rural, very remote and their co-design approach is centred on the idea that this is designed, owned, delivered, and led by the community because the point is not to come in, parachute in, and fix things. That’s such outdated thinking. It's to say, we want to help remove some of those barriers, help give you the support so you can solve things in the way that you know works for your community, and feel proud in having done that. Rather than trying to list off principles or frameworks, I just point to Murrup and say everything they do is what we can learn from when working with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities.

Meg Allan: I've only got a few minutes remaining of our webinar, so I'm going to call a close to the questions. 

A huge thank you to all of our panellists, Ishani, Florence, Belinda and Fiona for sharing your perspectives from across the ecosystem and for sharing the love, which is a little bit corny, but the love of networks, with us. 

There is a link in the ‘Explore More’ section to join the call for the co-design of a Rural Social Enterprise Network for Australia. If you click on that link and sign up, you are not committing to signing your life away. There is also another option to stay informed and stay connected. If you're interested, please continue with us on the journey towards a co-design process. 

Other than thanking our friends at Social Enterprise Australia for this wonderful opportunity, I'm going to pass back to Kate to close out this session and thank our panellists once more.

Kate Kutty: Thanks so much, Meg, and thanks to all of you for your time and wonderful insights. My tail's wagging here. It's so exciting to hear you talk about how strengthening networks really builds the movement, and some of those sentences that I'm going to hold about being socially enterprising. Everybody on this call is socially enterprising, regardless of your role. 

It's really exciting how you're using the Local Leads and the future Regional Engagement Coordinators to really bring that to life. Thank you for that.

I want to acknowledge the Social Enterprise Development Initiative and the funding from the Department of Social Services that's made these chats possible. We're really excited to keep these conversations going and support these wonderful insights.

I do want to do a quick shout-out to my colleagues at SEA who are in the backend pulling all of this together today, and recognise that we've had such wonderful audience participation. We wish you all a wonderful day ahead.

We look forward to connecting more. Thanks, everyone.